I'm sure AI corps have violated some IP laws here 'n there. Did not one guy die while he was trying to blow the whistle on this?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suchir_Balaji

(sorry for the thinfoil hat remark)

Like with all the tricks Meta played... Maybe somewhere deep down Moonshot's EULA is says that they are allowed to "proxy from time to time for research purposes". Then it's legal right? /s

And now we learn they use Swift and Kotlin to replace React with. So they are not replacing it with Ruby. I think they've hit the limits on Ruby (like twitter had on Scala).

P.s.: I find Kotlin "an acceptable typed-Ruby" with an industrial strength VM (the JVM) and two compiles to native stories (KMP and GraalVM-native).

Glad they have a patron now. I use it in my project (because scoped-css is not yet available in browsers and I do not want to deal much with CSS). LLMs write Tailwind easily, so that's good. And I do not have yet another place where cruft builds up (the CSS files) while they changes to them can silently mess up some UI I did not check.

So thanks Shopify for taking them under your wings.

X-mas wish: that the Servo project gets a proper patron (looking at you, Huawei and Samsung).

Also: nagging about the specifics of the README's tone of voice, while the 600-1000MB RAM usage drops to 100-250MB seems a little childish to me.

It's still open source! Just like in the pre-AI era they are welcome to submit a PR and improve it in the way they like it. The main dev seems very open to accepting help.

Those numbers only look good in comparison.

I don't see you publishing something which further reduces the memory footprint?

Given the project is open source, have at it! See if you can help improve it instead of complaining. This is a significant improvement and a cool project!

I run actual Winamp for my music streaming, and windows task manager claims it's using 4.1 MB.

Even that seems pretty high, but whatever, but given y'all are spending hundreds of mbs, I think I'm ok. Yes, spotify has features my subscription music service doesn't have... but the one I use lets me stream with Winamp.

I'm not complaining and it is a cool project (from what I can tell). But I think it's fair to say 200 MB memory usage is a lot without providing source code as a proof. Just by feel when you recall what were computers capable of when they did not have 100s of MB to spare.

I remember when I was scrounging memory sticks to get to 512 mb for my windows xp setup. And I was able to play Unreal: Return to Na Pali[0] on that.

[0] https://unreal.fandom.com/wiki/Unreal_Mission_Pack:_Return_t...

I think the main idea here is the "being able to use Rust for x-platform UIs". If any language is acceptable, yes, you cold use Dart (Flutter), Delphi (Lazarus), C++ (Qt), etc.

There are bridges to Rust:

https://pub.dev/packages/flutter_rust_bridge

https://github.com/qt/qtbridge-rust

And this project, Relm4, is one of m.

I had to click a little to confirm that Relm4 (like the original Relm) is --as the name shows-- borrows from https://elm-lang.org

Elm comes with some really cool concepts known as The Elm Architecture (TEA) and many projects have since borrowed from it. Usually people in the FP-enthousiasts group are more inclined to like TEA. I'm not sure to what extend the brides mentioned above allow for a TEA-like architecture.

> I think the main idea here is the "being able to use Rust for x-platform UIs".

I was okay with using C as the logic layer and Lazarus as the GUI. No reason you can't do that with Rust, but it will limit the amount of spaghetti-ish patterns that you may want to create.

are you hinting at Elm? sorry my friend, that aint spagetti to me.

it's a lot of fun working at a codebase that does essentially does not allow for runtime programming errors (validation errors are still there, or API/3rd-party errors still need to pass through your code; your Elm code is essentially incapable of creating any runtime programming errors of it's own).

I wasn't referring to anything specific, just the general nature of GUI apps involve some sort of "callback which takes another callback" and invokes logic in any source file, at any point in the execution.

GUIs are hard, regardless of tech stack.

Not saying Elm does not have it's hard parts, but the solution in there is succinctly different from what you just described that I think you might even find it interesting.

I used Qt, Gtk, React, Elm, JS-spagetti-with-some-jQuery-on-top...

And now I understand why people like Elm.

> Not saying Elm does not have it's hard parts, but the solution in there is succinctly different from what you just described that I think you might even find it interesting.

Thanks. Maybe I'll give it a bash on my next project.

Doesn't Qt wrap native UI toolkits? It looks very native...

AFAIK, the OS-specific Qt themes don't wrap the native widgets, it reimplements them. They are rather thorough though, making sure their OS-specific theme matches the look and behavior of the native OS, which makes it one of the best framework to do something that feels close to native.

ok. did not know that.

No, it's just the most accurate re-implementation that I know of at least for Windows.

You can sometimes tell the difference because the QT emulated widget can do things that the native widget can't.

I'm glad I'm not using this. It's the opposite of how I like to build web apps (which is either SSR with tiny bits of JS on top that I like to use Alpine.js for; or a JS-app that I like to use Elm for as life is too short runtime errors).

Nonetheless I hope all who do use Htmx, enjoy using it.

I would classify HTMX as a different style of "SSR with tiny bits of JS on top." In fact, I would argue it is a more "pure" form of SSR-based interactive web development than an Alpine.js-style approach (I am not making any value judgment here).

You can use ReScript with Htmx (or anything else) and get no runtime errors. It has a sound type system, great language.

I like ReScript/Reason. But it's no were close to Elm.

Htmx is the opposite of what I like. I will not use it ever for something serious.

HTMX is designed for enhancing web pages, not making full apps on web platform as Elm is. They have different use cases.

We need down-vote buttons for slop like this on HN. How can this reach the frontpage?

Since you are reading, here a story of mine. Both me and a friend build a SaaS product using ClaudeCode. We both have 15+ year experience in software (he more in dotNET me more in FLOSS).

He just accepted everything it came up with (pretty much vibe). I was suuuuuuper careful about what I accepted and spend the first weeks programming a lot myself.

His stack for JS was HUUUGE. Several different technologies were used. Mine JS stack was: only use Alpine.js (and avoid JS as much as possible).

His backend stack was equally huge: lots of native/binary OS dependencies bundled in Docker. Mine was 13MB of libs on top of the JVM.

Being one year in I run 3500 tests in 20secs. App boots under 3secs.

He considers rewriting it.

The art(isanal) is still important. Sure it's different now. But MY GOD what a difference a bit of oversight/leadership/tech-vision can make.

Did both versions ever face a security audit or pentest?

> We need down-vote buttons for slop like this on HN. How can this reach the frontpage?

LinkedIn introduced a "Seems like AI slop" reporting option, perhaps we should consider asking for one for HN too?

Just forgot that the Gaza oppression is ongoing, with the perpetrating govt still making claims on escalating it further, and the ww2 concentration camp oppression was stopped ~80 years ago.

Both are bad. But thinking that there is a connection between the two is indeed olympic-level mental gymnastics.

At least in ww2 perpetrating govt tried to hide it because they knew the ordinary citizens would not take it lightly. In the current case ordinary citizens climb hills to watch and rejoice.