Wow. This is news to me. Office Lens had been my trusted scanning app for ten years. It was years ahead of Cam Scanner bullshit, which many people used, likely because of marketing.
> I feel like there’s a bunch of factors for why it will never be the same for many folks
Yeah, and the problem arises simply because some people are unable to accept the fact. They insist that if LLM-assisted coding doesn't work for one, it's because “you're holding it wrong”.
I have experience in dealing with Sam Altman-like behavior. I hope to explain how their tactics unfold.
> I can see people concluding that they have been lied to rather than accept that they had been intellectually beaten.
There are two angles to this: from an individual perspective and from a collective one.
One's interaction with such a manipulator isn't a single shot. There is not a single event that they are “beaten”. First, one gets persuaded --- you might argue that there's nothing wrong with a skillful persuasion. At some point they realize that the reality is not in line with their expectations. They bring the point up to the manipulator and ask for a change, this time in more concrete terms. The manipulator agrees with the change, negotiates compromises, and the relationship continues. After some time the manipulated party realizes that things are not going in the direction they desire. This time they ask for more concrete terms, without accepting any compromises. The manipulator accepts, yet continues to act against the terms. The manipulated party is now angry and directly confronts the manipulator. The manipulator apologizes and tells that none of it was intentional, and asks for another chance. However, at that point, the manipulator has run out of “politically correct” “persuasion tactics”, and tells blatant lies to make the other party behave.
From a collective perspective, even those “politically correct” “persuasion tactics” are discovered to be lies, because what the manipulator told different parties are in direct opposition to each other, i.e., they cannot all be truths.
> Helen Toner suggested that they effectively ambushed Altman because if he had time to respond to allegations he could have provided a reasonable explanation. It did not reflect well on her.
I understand how her behavior may raise a flag for the unsuspecting, but it was exactly the right one. Manipulators prey on the benefit of the doubt. If Toner were to bring Altman's behavior into attention of others, no doubt that Altman would manipulate them successfully.
It's unfortunate that many people are unaware of these tactics and assume the best of intentions, when such assumptions fuel the manipulation that they would better avoid.
I want to add something about the idea of persuasion. Not that I think you are not doing the word justice or that you are for or against using the tactic.
Here is the etymological definition of the word:
persuasion(n.)
late 14c., persuasioun, "action of inducing (someone) to believe (something) by appeals to reason (not by authority, force, or fear); an argument to persuade, inducement," from Old French persuasion (14c.) and directly from Latin persuasionem (nominative persuasio) "a convincing, persuading," noun of action from past-participle stem of persuadere "persuade, convince," from per "thoroughly, strongly" (see per) + suadere "to urge, persuade," from PIE root *swād- "sweet, pleasant" (see sweet (adj.)).
Meaning "state of being convinced" is from 1530s; that of "religious belief, creed" is from 1620s. Colloquial or humorous sense of "kind, sort, nationality" is by 1864.
IMHO if you aim to convince people of something you are on the side of trying to control people's freedom to chose. That in itself is a form of being unethical to the idea of truth.
If you can't let people come to their own conclusions, you got problems and you shouldn't be in a position of power.
In my experience the people who spend the most time convincing are people with narcissistic personality disorders. I stay far away from those people because I know they dont really value truth and justice like I do.
I'm sorry that it wasn't clear. I didn't mean to imply that I was going to connect to Sam Altman. I specifically wanted to address why it wasn't the case that people were “intellectually beaten” by Sam Altman.
> except the one you imagine is true
I'm not sure what you mean. I told about an example of manipulation that I witnessed. I later learned that these were common tactics employed by con-artists, scammers, etc.
> Don’t project them on people you don’t know and seemingly have no actual first-hand experience with.
I don't need first-hand experience with someone to understand that they are a manipulator. I am comfortable forming my opinion based on reports.
Pay and worth are different, just like price and value are. Garbage collection is worth a lot, but its pay is determined by market dynamics. As the number of unemployed increases, it will pay less.
You left out “at the market clearing price”, then described a scenario where the supply of labor increases and the price drops, proving my exact point.
“Worth” and “at the market clearing price” are different concepts, which was my point. The job doesn't pay what it's worth, it pays the market price, which is determined by market dynamics, not how much people value it.
> they'd discover they needed to offer you salaries in the $350-400k range?
No, such a discovery wouldn't be possible, because nobody would pay that amount to someone who was willing to accept $200K.
> They're locked in an auction and the market price for your time is nowhere near $200k.
There is no magical market price that exists outside the market dynamics. When bidders know that one's current salary is $150K, their willingness to offer higher salaries will diminish accordingly.
In the example, it wasn't even that complex... I have used patterns to register allowed signer keys based on environment variables that an application runs under, initializing at startup... so "register" just meant assigning the correct values for 2-4 environment variables per public signer allowed... and removing the dev signer. (JWT based auth)
I wish people talked more about the building's shortcomings: moisture, mold, mildew, etc. It's a good architectural demonstration, but not good architecture --- just like how an overengineered code might be interesting, but not practical.
Well TFA did sort of mention it, it said it was a work of art, not a house to live in. Lloyd Wright designed fabulous-looking buildings but also many that were eminently impractical, either because they started falling apart shortly after they were built and/or because they had so many problems that they were unfit for habitation.
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