I have my own reasons why I left Obsidian and now building LimanDoc[1]. The enormous learning curve and a constant OCD itch (that I like to scratch) made me realise I am not actually improving my knowledge system. A constant hoarding is also putting an emotional pressure.
I like the offline part, but for me Canvas was the best tool. I am also building a P2P synchronization feature for LimanDoc, and having offline LLM support is coming soon too
This is the core principle of LimanDoc.com I am building, a canvas that holds files and diagrams, but most importantly an inner board (a folder) that you can see through.
Hi hackers! Last time[1] I received a lot of feedback and compliments for LimanDoc which motivated me to write about what actually drives me to continue the development. I am curious to discuss these with you, specifically: do you miss these features/ideas in other similar applications?
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Over a dozen different note-taking, knowledge management, and productivity tools were tried before I started ideating over something simple, something visual, yet powerful enough to satisfy my needs. The vision was born not instantly - but over extensive research of what I want, what people love and dislike in other tools, and what I can actually program. As a software engineer, the last task was the easiest.
Other tools often end up locking into restrictive structures, endless information hoarding, and dependence on cloud systems that may not be around tomorrow. I have outlined a set of principles designed to give me true ownership and freedom over my knowledgebase. Here’s why I started this journey, perhaps you can find yourself here too.
1. File Is The King
In tools like Notion, we’re locked into proprietary “blocks” and structures that can’t easily transition into other programs.
A file, in contrast, is universally accessible and can live independently of any single platform. I needed a tool that handles files so that I could use them with other apps. As an example, I want to visualize PDFs, Excel/Word, Markdown, and images, but edit or sign them with other programs.
What would happen if a tool like Notion or Evernote were to disappear tomorrow? Of course, you can export everything to HTML or PDF, but that is yucky to work with later on. With LimanDoc, my files are mine, forever, and I can use them wherever and with whatever other app I want.
2. Offline First
Cloud-based tools promise convenience but at the cost of privacy and independence. I wanted LimanDoc to empower me to take their files offline, ensuring their work remains accessible even without an internet connection. This is why I value tools like Obsidian and got many inspirations for LimanDoc. Something Roam Research could be one day.
This doesn’t mean LimanDoc can’t integrate with modern tools. Syncing with Google Drive, for example, remains an option, so I can still sync files to my work laptop when needed. However, the core philosophy is: my files, my network, and my control over the distribution. I can imagine the peace of mind knowing that even when syncing over a local network, my files never leave my private system. Albeit this P2P system and syncing over the local network is still in development, this is one of my goals to bring to the masses on.
2b. Moreover, with advances in neural processing, offline-first extends to local LLMs too. The goal is to bring AI-driven insights directly to you, without your data ever needing to go into the cloud. There are infinitely many cases where this can be useful: transcribe recorded meetings to text; summarize books and long PDFs; or draw a graph of an Excel file.
3. Zettelkasten Turned Into Note-Hoarding
For years, Zettelkasten has been the go-to framework for managing ideas and notes, but I find that it can quickly devolve into an endless library of information I don’t really need. Hoarding information doesn’t make me smarter—it makes finding what I actually need even harder. I praised Obsidian above, but besides the huge entry barrier, the over-engineered plugins make things worse - I was constantly reminded to "improve my system" once more like a drug addict. I mean, the graph view is cool, however that is the only dopamine I get from using Obsidian. But I don't need a shiny toy that distracts me - I need a tool to solve problems.
I believe that notes should be treated like stepping stones. Use them, learn from them, and once you’re done, let them go. In LimanDoc, I want to create a space that values clarity over clutter, motivating me to review and refine notes rather than hoard them. The goal is not to archive every idea but to simplify, understand, and discard what no longer serves me.
4. 2D Canvas: Knowledge is Visual, Not Just Stored
I need to visualize what I have in order to understand it better. Binding this feature with the files that are in my file system gives me a true power tool. Now, some apps also have canvases like Miro or Mural, but they are online, which means that if you want to edit a PDF, Excel, or Word, you will have to download it, do your work, and re-up
load it again. What in a mother of UX is this?
5. Infinite Zoom: Hierarchical Clarity with Fluidity
Knowledge isn’t always linear, and my tools should respect that. With LimanDoc, infinite zoom functionality allows me to create diagrams with files/documentation that grow organically. Let’s say I am developing an idea and want to break down a concept further. I simply create an inner board, which is a folder, and simply zoom in, creating a nested “board within a board” if needed. There is a beautiful concept called Zoomworld by Jef Raskin - read about it!
Feel like me? Then help me to improve LimanDoc by sending feature requests or bug reports to info[at]limandoc.com - I would be eternally grateful to see that my app is also useful to you.
There are tabs, like in a browser, so you can have two tabs for your usecase. Perhaps I can work on tab division, like I'm IDEs. I'll be also implementing a search functionality later to find the files and even searching across the content of files.
However for both files to be visually be on the same level, I am now thinking about shortcuts, where the original document will live in a distant folder (board), and you can view it from other board by creating a reference/shortcut to it. Possibilities are endless!
This is a good use-case, thanks!
I will be adding arrows quite soon too, but sharing and collaborating externally will take a while, hopefully you have joined waitlist :)
This is a great find, thanks! Indeed I had the vision of Zoomworld as described there. The Leaping concept is very intriguing I must say - will play with that for sure
Vim's incremental search experience is basically identical to this Leap concept, just that unfortunately it doesn't come with two dedicated keys on the keyboard. It's been my favorite way to navigate text files for years and one of the reasons I like that editor.
Does the installer needs admin rights? Or the app after installing it?
One possible answer is that I self-signed the app rather than using 400$ code-signing authority - hence you might get warnings for the installer.
This was very important for me, can't appreciate enough for your time trying and reviewing.
Indeed I have been focusing on features more than optimization, but I also had to spend huge amount of time with the new UI tool. For example I had to revert a lot of macOS features like two-finger panning and zooming because on Windows/Linux I would not receive an y-coordinate events from trackpad... Some key shortcuts I had to implement myself for that reason too.
I also wished that the sidebar UI lag was the only one :) There are more if high-def images and big PDFs are rendered. The UI optimization will be the primary focus for next two releases.
Regarding POC - for me it is also a business POC - I primarily want to know if other people will find the idea useful, whether there are alternatives etc. While I'm here I also want to ask what use case would you (if ever) consider using it - personal or work related?
Also feel fee to reach at info[at]limandoc.com, as for the extensive feedbacks I will give a perpetual license in the (possible) near future. Having feedbacks is primary reason for this PoC.
I just revisited similar tools to understand better why I feel your tool has more appeal to me than the likes of miro, etc. and I realized I forgot to compliment the good parts. Yours felt way simpler, the ui doesn’t get in the way and that’s a huge plus. I wasn’t greeted with any pop ups, toasts and whatnot. It felt professional like the other software I use, and not a dystopian fragile virtual money grab toy. Those other tools feels enterprisey, thus yucky, cringey. On a subjective level I don't identify with corporate values that’s why I think your tool felt like the very first of its kind I have ever used, because the entire process/context aligned with my values as a hacker, independent researcher. It was a relevant experience for that matter!
Signing under the yucky and bloaty corporate part! I try to keep the landing page clean as well, it was quite important for me, as I want to use a tool, rather than a shiny toy.
That is why I prefer simple text editors to Notion; it is a must-have for the my app to be compatible with outside software and not a vendor lock-in.
I would use it for organizing dossiers on a research topic. For collecting thoughts and references for things under my current scope of work. I would use it temporarily and not as a primary storage/organization system. A short term memory aid if you will. In this context the number of canvases I would be creating/destroying would be high. The distinct killer feature for me is just being able to layout multimedia files neatly in the canvas. The neatly part is very important to me, meaning I care deeply about media taking a discrete amount of grid cells and filling them up perfectly. I’m used to CAD and design tools where you have complete control of metrics, alignment and spacing. I wouldn’t care for arrows and labels, this ends up just being yak shaving, hard to maintain and superfluous. Your approach is what I think is an ideal desktop environment. Traditional desktops are worthless because they only have icons and do not layout files like a literal desk top. These canvases have very little value as a document for me in the sense of a permanent storage thing. Since there’s no guarantee I’ll have the app in all my devices at all times. I haven’t investigated how you do it, but in the uncommon case I needed to persist the canvas long term, if it generated a single sidecar text file describing the canvas (like obsidian and excalidraw does) then I could depend on this file and commit it alongside my repos. But I would expect the ability to have multiple of these sidecar files for the same directory tree, hence able to have multiple ways of analyzing the same set of media, reflecting different perspectives and stages of analysis. IME software that require zero commitment for using it are the best. Like text files. It feel like a tool and not a platform. So the idea of always creating a project and things like that is pure cognitive overhead to me. Even apps that are fully local and require no account do feel like a platform when they require some kind of upfront establishments prior to giving access to some or all functionality.
It is indeed hard to optimize it; I haven't fully utilized the potential myself. For now I have an object pool which allows me to create only one instance of a canvas element. Kotlin also allows me to use coroutines easily, also (potentially) have access to GPU/CPU since this is a desktop app.
Another thing I tried (still in backlog) is dynamic quality reducer for images and PDFs - sort of like a game engine rendering where zooming out will reduce quality of images.
What are you writing your app on? Electron?
Thanks! The text is not stored in a database, rather I just render the markdown files you have on the canvas. Technically, it is also possible to put your whole Obsidian vault into LimanDoc's vault, and all the files from Obsidian will appear in the canvas :)
Ah I see now, I will check it out! In near future I will also add a support to render whole web-pages instead, e.g. adding youtube video, blog post, etc. Perhaps adding an excalidraw link there and drawing right within LimanDoc would work... Will keep an eye!
I like the offline part, but for me Canvas was the best tool. I am also building a P2P synchronization feature for LimanDoc, and having offline LLM support is coming soon too
[1] https://limandoc.com/