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Was the Wright brothers’ first flight useless, or did it teach us lessons that lead to the Concorde and 777?

Was the first automobile so slow and clunky it was useless, or did it lead to the F1 cars of today?

Was Alan Touring’s computer so slow it was useless, or did it lead to this comment being typed on a device that is many orders of magnitude faster and smaller?

Going to Mars will teach us a lot. In the future when we go further it will be useful in ways we can’t imagine today.


> In the future when we go further it will be useful in ways we can’t imagine today.

There. Is. No. Further.

That's my issue with all that. It's pretty basic: check how far the next solar system is (I know you don't: it's 4+ light-years). Check the speeds we get when we send something out of the solar system (e.g. Voyager).

Sending something to the next solar system at speeds orders of magnitudes faster than we reach today (which we can't reach because... orbital mechanics) would take us tens of thousands of years (hundreds of thousands actually, I can't remember and at this point it does not matter).

Unless someone discovers wormholes or a similar revolution in physics, we are not going to another solar system, period. Contaminating Mars is not even helping doing that. It's like hoping that the Wright brothers' work would help discover vaccination.


That is exactly the point. You simply can’t know what the future holds.

After the Wright brother’s flight do you think people thought we would cross the Atlantic faster than the speed of sound sipping champagne, or go to the moon? “Impossible”

And so on.

You have no idea what will be possible on the future, but I hope we can get there by learning, not sticking our heads in the sand.


Attacking Sam and his family will only cause harm to one family.

What Sam is doing with ICE, DoW, etc is harming tens of millions around the globe.


Which is why this narrative of caring about his family is so absurd.

A defense contractor is in the business of war. In supplying the war machine, you should be living in a fortress. Tall walls, check your drink for poison, live in paranoia. Every person in the business of war knows what they are getting in to, and how to protect their family.

How is someone that is near the face of AI this naive about such an ancient thing?

The business of war is fine. It is ancient. It is part of humanity. Making some morality plea towards family and "violence is never the answer" while in the business of violence is NOT okay.

Everyone in the defense industry knows the risks. Blood money is not free. You sacrifice a peaceful life for the wealth.

To keep your family safe you have to use a meager sum of that money to have tall walls, guards, and security. DoD contractor 101.

Alternatively, live in obscurity, don't talk about your work, and it is usually fine.

A world-wide known CEO doesn't have this luxury so again, use a small portion of unfathomable wealth to protect your family. I have a feeling this war is just starting.

When in the business of death, you no longer get to live with the rules of peace.


It’s almost like these people believe Being in the business of violence and death is fine. Killing other people, making their lives a living nightmare, etc.

Suddenly it’s not ok when a tiny fraction of that violence comes home.

Hypocrisy at its most extreme.


These arguments make perfect logical sense. Sam Altman has ceased to be a civilian, he has waived those rights with his DoD deal, I don't know why people are acting like he is one. I think it's cowardly that both of you are so downvoted without any responses at all against you, much less good counterarguments.

It's because there is not a moral counterargument.

The counterargument is racism, classism, nationalism, and tribalism. These are not things people will say out loud.


Fortunately, that’s not how it works, no matter what you think.

How else could it work?

Are you saying that when a nation or individual brings violence on others it does not get given back in retaliation?

Of course it does.


Resources would not be scarce if some people were not hoarding.

The supply is greatest at the source.

hoarding what?

you could dekulak all 3500 billionaires, magically transmute their make believe money into hard cash, and that $20 trillion would yield less than $2500 per human. hooray?


You say that as if there aren’t an enormous amount of people for whom $2500 isn’t an enormous amount of money. Even in wealthy nations like the US, that equates to approximately 7% of the personal income for the average person. But for the 65% of the world’s population living on $10 or less per day, that is an increase of 77% or more on their yearly income.

But more important than the cash is the power that money buys. Defenestrating the uber-wealthy of their undue influence in society would have far reaching benefits beyond just money in people’s bank accounts.


The US has over 770,000 homeless people [1]

1 in 5 children in the USA don’t know where their next meal is coming from [2]

[1] https://https://endhomelessness.org/state-of-homelessness/

[2] https://www.feedingamerica.org/hunger-in-america/child-hunge...


About 1 billion people live on less than $1 a day. So that’s like 8 years of expenses for 15% of all humans.

Which is a pretty damning indictment of capitalism


Are you going to work for free?

Even in non-capitalist systems people aren’t working for free

And those systems also have scarcity.

And it's not just because you are hoarding your labour.


Maybe a basic question - do miners use solar?

Prices are dropping so fast it seems like the cheapest way to power mining rigs.

Also free grid electricity for three hours a day in Australia will be interesting.


They generally use whatever is available and cheapest. However, due to the constant power demand and the capital cost involved (you don't want your miners sitting idle), if that isn't grid power, its often either "reliable" renewables (e.g. hydro), "stranded" fossil energy (e.g. gas that would otherwise be flared off), or in the worst case, literally buying a coal power plant that was about to shut down just to power a Bitcoin mine.

> liability could very likely also fall on the Linux foundation.

It’s just the same as if I copy-paste proprietary code into the kernel and lie about it being GPL.

Is the Linux foundation liable there?


Maybe. DCOs haven’t been tested. But you can at least say that the person who did this committed fraud and that you had no reasonable way to know they would do that.

LLMs can and do regurgitate code without the user’s knowledge. That’s the problem, the user has no way to mitigate against it. You’re telling contributors “use this thing that has a random chance of creating infringing code”. You should have foreseen that would result in infringing code making its way into the kernel.


If someone sent you some code and said “it’s all good bro, you can put it in the kernel with your name on it”, would you?

If you don’t feel comfortable about where some code has come from, don’t sign your name.

The fact LLMs exist and can generate code doesn’t change how you would behave and sign your name to guarantee something.


Are you being purposely obtuse?

Not at all.

Linus and the rules have always been very clear. If you don’t know where code came from, don’t submit it.


> This does nothing to shield Linux from responsibility for infringing code.

It’s no worse than non-AI assisted code.

I could easily copy-paste proprietary code, sign my name that it’s not and that it complies with the GPL and submit it.

At the end of the day, it just comes down to a lying human.


That’s the difference. In practice a human has to commit fraud to do this.

But a human just using an LLM to generate code will do it accidentally. The difference is that regurgitation of training text is a documented failure mode of LLMs.

And there’s no way for the human using it to be aware it’s happening.


You can not accidentally sign your name saying “this code is GPL compliant”

If you can’t be sure, don’t sign.


I’m not gonna. A lot of other people now will.

Well yes, people break the law and expose themselves to liability everyday. Nothing new there.

Yes but if you do that manually you are in bad faith, if you ask an AI to do it you have no idea if you are going to be liable of something or not.

> you have no idea if you are going to be liable of something or not

In life that is a very strong indicator you should not do <thing>


The top comment there mentions the French Revolution.

You think people will put up with wildly accelerating inequality forever?

It’s going to explode, the only question is when.


> You think people will put up with wildly accelerating inequality forever?

No. Nor do I think they should. But UBI, higher income tax at the top and a wealth tax for the ultra rich sound like a much better plan to me than to blow a bunch of things up.


Yes, and it's not too late! Plus, sama is one of the only ultra rich I've heard talk about policies that could actually help society cope with reduced aggregate labor demand.

But when I look at how the US handled previous rounds of globalization and automation, I have very sober expectations for our ability to pursue the "happy path." Still, one has to try.


Without question they’re better than blowing stuff up.

Do you think the ruling elite will allow it?


Someone should tell the people assisting in the accelerating inequality that, because unfortunately our system is massively biased in their favor when it comes to enacting any of those things. Except the last, which some will, understandably, see as their only recourse.

Put simply: people _have_ been fighting for those things and the wealthy have fought tooth and nail against it. I don’t at all understand why anyone can be surprised when all other avenues are closed, people resort to violence. It’s literally how this country was founded.


The average person can make one of those things happen, and not the others. Yes, the alternative is obviously better, but once violence becomes the only course of action with reasonable chance at good results, violence is what you will get. Just watch, this is going to escalate. A lot.

Maybe Altman and the other oligarchs should donate money towards candidates who are actually pushing for higher taxes, UBI, and universal healthcare then. So far they've all been throwing most of their money and influence behind violent, hateful, assholes who repeatedly cut their taxes and start wars.

The US is a country of violence and war. Founded from a war, massive civil war, almost perpetually at war for the last many decades.

Military spending costs a trillion a year (Trump wants 1.5 trillion). It’s big business and makes some people very rich.


The US spends more on its military than the next 10 countries combined.

When all you have is a hammer…


The theory behind the US having a large military is that it acts as a sort of fleet in being - that the US prefers other methods of engaging with countries, and having a stronger military precludes other countries from engaging militarily. In turn, having stable global relations and protected global trade provides the US with a huge economic boon to fund its large military.

That's the theory anyway - our Idiot King and his idiots have completely missed the point of the US military existing and are using it as a primary method of engagement, which is causing the economic boon used to fund the military to evaporate.

As an aside, it's not a huge issue, but China's military costs use different accounting than the US, and seem lower by comparison. Apples to apples, China probably spends about half what the US does on military.


> the US prefers other methods of engaging with countries, and having a stronger military precludes other countries from engaging militarily

If the US has such a strong military why are they always begging European countries to help them with their various totally-not-a-war "actions", like most recently in Iran?

Last time the UK got into something in the Middle East with the US we lost more people to "friendly fire" than enemy action. There's no real appetite for that any more.


Because the US doesn't want sole responsibility or complicity for the wars it starts. It looks a lot better if everyone is involved.

And besides, even if you have a large, capable military, why not spread the cost (in lives and materiel) around?


US wants nato countries to buy US weapons.

> Apples to apples, China probably spends about half what the US does on military.

With fours times the population


I mean we could just go back to talk softly and carry a big stick. There are options between pacifism and boisterous rabble rousing and picking fights that don't particularly need to be fought without good plans.

Bullshit. Those numbers are not to be trused. China simply lies about their military spending, but independent estimates put their spending alone close to the USA.

> This feels like genuine political competition between local business interests and public health concerns.

You just described the US at large.

The evidently extremely difficult decision between making money for a few, or making life better for everyone.


> You just described the US at large

I described any democracy in a society with private property. Even without private property, you will have issues with concentrated benefits and diffuse harms–negotiating that is part and parcel with governance.

Iowa businsses petitioning their cause is one thing. OpenAI seagulling in to take a shit in Springfield strikes me as being categorically different.


Viewed from a country with universal healthcare , 18 month’s maternity leave ( my partner just used it ) and so much more, it feels like comparing the US to “any democracy” is like comparing rocks to gold.

> viewed from a country with universal healthcare...it feels like comparing the US to “any democracy” is like comparing rocks to gold

Do most democracies, extant or across history, have universal healthcare? You're comparing a policy to a governance structure.


All developed ones do, yes.

Except one of course.


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