> This just doesn't make any sense. None of this is nice. It's all ugly and complicated. There's no beauty to these tools.
Um. That applies to all software... but not especially to React and Redux. Or what are you comparing with?
Is there anything in particular you dislike about React, or Redux, or Babel?
I don't think this ecosystem is going to "collapse" at all. Something else will come along, as always. Until then, it's a fine set of tools.
You don't need to feel despair about choosing tools.
Spending weeks to learn an ecosystem of dynamic web programming... yeah, what's wrong with that? How quickly would you prefer to learn?
I learned to use React in a couple of days, for what it's worth. It's remarkably straightforward and the API surface area is small.
Redux is such a simple idea that I accidentally invented nearly the same thing before I even knew about Flux: put your app's state in a global immutable object, then use values to represent actions that transform the state. It's not ugly or complicated.
You don't need to be tricked by peer pressure either. You can be as conservative and cautious as you wish.
> Redux is such a simple idea that I accidentally invented... >put your app's state in a global immutable object, then use values to represent actions that transform the state. It's not ugly or complicated.
i agree that react is fairly simple..it's the other pieces to get it to be a complete solution that are just ugly and complex.
I'm sorry but flux and redux are another layer of abstraction that are much harder for new starters to grasp.
The advocates are so deep in the echo chamber that you don't realize how daunting all this.
> I'm sorry but flux and redux are another layer of abstraction that are much harder for new starters to grasp. The advocates are so deep in the echo chamber that you don't realize how daunting all this.
As always in a large enough population, there exists multiple dichotomies. Its a difficult problem; In this case, some people want better(more specific) tools, and others want less choice and time to learn one tool well. There is no really good answer to this, given that you can't please everyone, and software empowers minorities to fulfill their visions regardless of the majority. Ideally we can just hope that all evolution is cyclic (explosion of ideas, consolidation of ideas, repeat) and overall we stay in a healthy equilibrium. However, this is a problem in all aspects of life, from fashion to food. Even within computer science its not a problem unique to JavaScript.
JavaScript without Babel, React + (Flux | Meteor | Redux | Relay) is a non-starter. Some may also swap out for: Angular | Ember | Backbone + jQuery. And almost always there are additional "custom"[0] homegrown frameworks on top of or alongside everything else.
Java without (Spring | Guice), Lombok, (AspectJ | Spring AOP), Guava, (JodaTime | Java8), ApacheCommons, (Log4J | SLF4J), (Hibernate | ...) is a non-starter. Some may also swap out for: JavaEE + (Glassfish | JBoss). And almost always there are additional "custom"[0] homegrown frameworks on top of or alongside everything else.
I'm just using Java because I have to deal with it daily. However, undoubtedly this is a problem across any language or tool that has a large enough population.
[0] "custom" is in quotes because developers that create them always claim they are general purpose, regardless that in reality only one application has ever used it in production.
Um. That applies to all software... but not especially to React and Redux. Or what are you comparing with?
Is there anything in particular you dislike about React, or Redux, or Babel?
I don't think this ecosystem is going to "collapse" at all. Something else will come along, as always. Until then, it's a fine set of tools.
You don't need to feel despair about choosing tools.
Spending weeks to learn an ecosystem of dynamic web programming... yeah, what's wrong with that? How quickly would you prefer to learn?
I learned to use React in a couple of days, for what it's worth. It's remarkably straightforward and the API surface area is small.
Redux is such a simple idea that I accidentally invented nearly the same thing before I even knew about Flux: put your app's state in a global immutable object, then use values to represent actions that transform the state. It's not ugly or complicated.
You don't need to be tricked by peer pressure either. You can be as conservative and cautious as you wish.
Why all this... whining?