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Disclaimer: I'm not a doctor, a neurologist, or an endocrinologist. I'm in no way qualified to be talking about this.

I have a fairly severe form of delayed sleep-phase syndrome: left to my own devices, as when I was on summer vacation back in school, I would gladly stay awake for 24 hours and sleep for 12. I've long noticed anecdotally this pattern is associated with geeks. Ask yourself: if a 6:00 AM Twitter update says your geekiest friend is waiting for his code to compile, is it because he woke up early or because he hasn't been to bed yet?

It turns out there's a reason for this. There's a gene called the ASMT gene, which codes for enzymes responsible (in part) for the synthesis of melatonin from serotonin in the pineal gland. This gene is often deleted in individuals with autism or Aspergers syndrome, which results in extremely low levels of serum melatonin. The effect is so strong that even family members of autistic children, even those not themselves diagnosed with autism or Aspergers, have been shown to have abnormally depressed melatonin levels. More information: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2199264/

Melatonin is one of the biggest chemical regulators of the sleep cycle in humans, and increased melatonin at night has been shown experimentally to reduce the time of sleep onset. I'm not aware of any studies comparing the effect size between autistic/Aspergers patients and healthy controls, but it stands to reason that the former group might stand more to gain.

I've personally experienced tremendous benefit in my sleep patterns from taking melatonin. I spent my entire teenage life showing up to classes in a sleep-deprived haze because I wasn't aware of this. Hopefully I can save someone else from that.

Now, for the catch: We have no idea why Aspergers symptoms are associated with reduced melatonin synthesis. Melatonin is a regulator of neural plasticity during fetal and early childhood brain development. Melatonin is synthesized from serotonin, and serotonin levels at various stages of development are drastically different in autistics/Aspergers compared to healthy children. We don't know to what extent these are causes or effects of autistic symptoms, and what effect there might be on development from long-term melatonin supplementation during early childhood. However, in healthy adults, the safety of long-term melatonin use, even at doses many dozens of times higher than the maximum clinically effective dose, has been shown to be completely safe. How you generalize from that is up to you.



I've personally experienced tremendous benefit in my sleep patterns from taking melatonin.

I did better with taking co-q-10 in the morning. For a long time, I couldn't tolerate melatonin. I would feel like I wasn't fully awake for up to three days after taking it. When my health improved enough that I could tolerate it, I still needed co-q-10 in the morning to feel fully awake.

Co-q-10 is the co-enzyme of melatonin and wakes your brain up in the morning. It is made in the body in a complex (17 step?) process. A bottleneck at any stage can leave you deficient, so many people are deficient. If you take co-q-10 in the morning, your body will produce a small melatonin spike about 12 or so hours later. If you take melatonin, it does not increase production of co-q-10. So taking co-q-10 can do a lot more in terms of healing both sides of waking/sleeping cycle of the brain chemistry. It is also gentler/subtler than melatonin.

Lots of people use melatonin to good effect, so I'm not trying to knock it. Just trying to expand on the topic of nutritional supplements and brain chemistry wrt the waking/sleeping cycle. Thanks for bringing this up. :-)


I have taken CO-Q10 for a period of 6 months several years ago. It is bit on the expensive side, as far supplements goes. I used to take it to help me stay alert. I didn't see any difference in my general alert level. I kept on taking it because I was under the impression it might take me longer than couple of months to see any improvements. I increased dose, changed brand; nothing happened.

Currently I am only taking Fish Oil (Omega 3&5) and St. John's Wort. Both helps me with my anxiety and sleep.

I used to stay awake for 24-36 hours at a time quite often with 12-16 hours sleep in between. Relied heavily on caffeine and my anxiety was off the roof. I completely stopped caffeine from my diet. Drink decaf. Tea. Exercise first thing in the morning to burn up most of my energy so that I get tired by the end of day and help me sleep. I still end up staying awake for ~20hrs a day, which is closer to my goal of ~16hrs and better than previous habit of staying awake for ~30hrs.

If you have problem sleeping, kill the caffeine and it will solve half of your problems.


I'm betting on a placebo effect of the melatonin. taken in pill form it is only effective for a few hours.


It's hardly a placebo effect if it has an effect for a few hours.

I've struggled with insomnia my whole life. If I'm able to fall asleep in the first place, I'm usually able to stay asleep long enough to get rested.

I only need the effect for about an hour, maybe 90 minutes. Long enough to fall asleep.


I think the comment refers to the placebo affect for "I would feel like I wasn't fully awake for up to three days after taking it."


Ah, right! Rereading the thread, that seems the more likely interpretation.


At the time, I was extremely ill and my brain chemistry was out of whack in a big way. It wasn't a placebo effect.


Some quick googling did not find anything about CoQ10 being related to melatonin. I'd be interested in learning more about this. Do you have any sources?


Unfortunately, no. A quick google isn't turning anything up for me either. I know this from talking to very knowledgeable people who did a lot of research for dealing with their own health problems. I have found such people to be the most reliable source for information on such things. I am quite surprised and rather chagrined that this information isn't readily available with a quick google. I will have to look into it some more some other time, when I have the time to do so. I try hard to find scientific stuff to back up what I understand to be true.


What happens if you use both melatonin & co-q-10?


Melatonin about 30 minutes before bedtime and co-q-10 in the morning worked well for me at one time, but only after I had already done some work on healing my body generally and brain chemistry along with it. I no longer routinely take either of them, which is a recent development. I still have co-q-10 in the house because until two or three weeks ago, I was still taking it about 5 mornings a week. I haven't had melatonin in the house recently.


I think i have a DSPS too, but instead of fighting it, i live with my cycle (around 25 hours). Impossibility to work in office hours forces me to be independent, so it's not so bad.


Sorry dude I accidentally downvoted your you due to being foggy while waking up.




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