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What the OP describes is really long, drawn out, complicated mud wrestling.

I've been a good TeX user from the beginning of TeX and love TeX.

For the problem the OP addresses with LaTeX, there is a much easier solution: And the candidates are ..., and may I have the envelope, please? [drum roll]. And the winner is ["rip"]: Just use just TeX, that is, D. Knuth's TeX with his standard macro collection Plain. If get into trouble, then just get and read his book, The TeXBook -- as software documentation, it is exemplary.

I'm guessing that a TeX file sent to people who accept LaTeX will work fine. That was the case the time I published in the Elsevier journal Information Sciences.

Want some cross reference macros? Okay, I put my TeX macro source code for cross references at

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13630570

in two parts in two posts where the above URL is for the first part and the second part is close in the same HN thread.

The OP goes on and on about what text editor to use for typing in documents in TeX. No problemo! I just use my favorite general purpose text editor KEdit with a few macros specific to TeX.

With the TeX distribution I have is the spell checker ASpell. I use it for nearly all my spell checking, in blog posts, e-mail, sure, TeX, source code documentation, own notes on random subjects, etc. ASpell was written by a bright, hard working person -- it's darned nice software, one of my favorite tools. I use ASpell just for English, but IIRC it also can work with French, German, etc.

TeX is fixed and unchanging, rock solidly standard, essentially totally bug free, beautifully designed and documented -- what's not to like?

LaTeX? Just to start, need at least two books, each about twice the size of Knuth's one book, and IMHO nowhere nearly as well written (likely the case since next to nothing in software or computer science is written as well as Knuth's book). For more, of course there is the TeX source code documentation in Knuth's literate programming which I've long regarded as just exemplary software development -- that is, IMHO the most important part of software is the documentation, clear enough to make the actual programming language statements obvious because otherwise when the code is written "only the programmer and God understand it and six months later, only God".

TeX was good enough for Knuth's book and, then, his series The Art of Computer Programming and, thus, should be up to the needs of a journal.

Or, in short, just use TeX, with your favorite editor (hopefully a good one that lets you write some macros), write some TeX macros, use ASpell, and otherwise avoid the mud wrestling and relax!



Interestingly, I thought of doing this, and still might.

The biggest caveat is that you still have to rely on the buggy conference templates (or spend a lot of time recreating them).


TeX is essentially a programming language for typesetting. I sigh when I think of learning a new language for such a narrow purpose. You make this sound easy but I have Knuth's book and have seen enough of it to know this isn't easy. If it were, no one would have been motivated to write or use LaTeX in the first place.


> TeX is essentially a programming language for typesetting. I sigh when I think of learning a new language for such a narrow purpose.

Yup, and "sigh" is a mild version.

I don't remember saying that TeX was "easy".

Actually, for just text, TeX can be quite easy, as easy as, say, HTML, old WordStar, Word, the old Runoff programs, etc. That is, just need to know a few tags.

The difficult parts are doing more, lots more, especially typesetting some mathematics with some tricky notation. It's fair to say that, just due to mathematics and its notation, fundamentally there is no "royal road" to typesetting all of mathematics -- much of it, yes, all of it, no.

I confess I spent a lot of time in Knuth's book. At one point I wrote a verbatim macro and like it better than what Knuth has -- verbatim is tricky because need to cancel temporarily a lot of what is in TeX. I wrote the macro so that I could document with the source code TeX macros in TeX documents. At the time, that seemed important -- I no longer believe it is.

Also I wanted to use TeX as the formatting language for my old daisy wheel printer, say, instead of old PC WordStar or some such. At the time, that seemed important. Nope, it wasn't.

But for business cards? Yup, TeX has been nice. Can get some sheets to run through a black and white laser printer. The TeX is cute, say, have the TeX for one business card and, then, use more TeX tricks to position the results for one card on all the cards on one sheet. Then bend the sheets and get a stack of cards -- they look good enough (somehow the edges are clean enough).

But I've got the macro; writing it is a good TeX exercise.

Maybe have to look at TeX in about the right way. Or, from a movie, "I'll love it when it works." with the response "It will work when you love it." Or, love it for what it is good for; don't hate it for what it's not good for. TeX is not good for everything.

What is TeX good for? Sure, Knuth's books in his series The Art of Computer Programming (TACP) and, okay, also papers in, say, the American Mathematical Society (AMS) journals.

Or, TeX is to do on a computer what typesetters used to do by hand for math text, many physics and engineering texts, TACP, and the AMS. So, right, TeX is not the ultimate way to put any and all marks in color, etc. on paper or a screen now and in the future. For the future, really, TeX was to computerize the old work of math typesetting, not create a new future in formatting or putting wildly conceived marketing materials on billboards, handbills, TV, or computer screens. E.g., I don't see an easy way in TeX to wrap multicolored, stretched text around a sphere and have it rotating with sparks flying off -- maybe Knuth could use TeX for that! I see no way to do ray tracing graphics in TeX. TeX doesn't replace everything from Adobe or HTML5 or be the sole tool of all graphic artists, movie makers, etc.

But if you want to be able to type math, and I do, then TeX is just fantastic -- beautiful results and, for such good results, by far the easiest approach.

If look at Knuth's book and insist on just an introductory tutorial for an hour or so and just f'get about the rest, then you should do okay at first. As you want more, say, ordered lists, unordered lists, simple lists (I have some simple macros for each of those three, with the logic for some nesting), good control over page breaks, exact control on space after periods, positioning of figures, using TeX to put math annotation on a figure (basically have TeX print on top of the figure -- actually easy enough once see how it works), some fancy foils format, essentially automatic tables of contents, cross references, a nice way to do references (I have a good enough way but don't use BibTeX), getting good with font magnification, handling hyphenation in detail yourself, tricky tables (they are not so easy in HTML, either -- about the only easy way to do tables is with just flat ASCII and assuming a monospaced font!), then look some things up in The TexBook.

I believe you will find that the simple stuff can still be simple. And for the math, say, at the level of freshman calculus, that's actually quite natural and easy also.

IMHO, LaTeX is more difficult. Maybe LaTeX makes it easier to have some book format with title page, frontispiece, preface, table of contents, fronts matter, body, parts, chapters, sections, subsections, back matter, tricky running headers and footers, references, colophon, etc., but, gee, Knuth wrote his book in TeX and not everyone is trying to write the Encyclopedia Britannica.

If something seems really challenging in TeX, then maybe don't really need to do that. Or get some help from the KISS princple -- Keep it Simple Sam.

E.g., for KISS, consider HN: How can post pictures? Can't do that. How can include TeX math? Nope, not there. How about bold face? Can't do that either. How about ordered lists nicely indented? Not there. Still HN is darned useful.




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