Hacker Newsnew | past | comments | ask | show | jobs | submitlogin
Is Verizon Wireless Making It Harder to Avoid Charges? (nytimes.com)
29 points by inmygarage on June 20, 2010 | hide | past | favorite | 20 comments


"First, she flatly denied a customer service rep can be fired for suggesting a data block. "If a customer calls and indicates to a representative that a data block would solve his or her problem, the representatives can and should suggest a data block"

That's some really careful wording.

If you call and say you want data blocked they will do that, albeit after suggesting up-selling alternatives. But if you call and say "how can I stop getting these charges", then as the rep said you won't hear about the option to block data.

It's a shame Pogue didn't do a better followup on this part.


The truth is that this practice of "don't offer, but do if asked" is the basic operating method of most large companies. As a customer you have to learn to be equally careful in wording your requests. If someone calls in wanting a credit but doesn't say those words, there are many examples where you're not allowed to offer the credit. But if they're smart enough to ask for a credit, and they've never had one before for that specific issue, then generally you can provide it. This goes for banks, telcos, utilities, whatever.

The next time you're on the phone, if you get a response that sounds like the CSR has had to say it a thousand times, the truth is you're probably just not asking the right question.

Case in point: at two companies I've worked for, we've had a military discount. But, we weren't able to offer it, even if it came up in conversation. If someone told me "I'm being deployed so I need to make sure my wife can pay my bill while I'm gone," I would have been required to walk him through adding her as an authorized user on the account.

On the other hand, if he said the exact same thing and finished with "oh, by the way, do you have a military discount," then all of a sudden his monthly bill is going to get lower (lowered by a lot in one case.)


The commenters picked up on that right away, and one of them was "highlighted" by a NYT editor, so I'm hoping Pogue follows up on it.


"As longtime readers know, I think the cellphone industry is one step away from a big-city mugger."

I think they're worse. You at least know what you're getting into with a mugger. The carriers, however, are all about hiding information, causing unintended charges and profiting off their customers' lack of 24/7 vigilance, and manipulating you with crazy pricing plans. It astonishes me that this industry isn't better regulated (in the US), or given effective incentives to behave like good citizens.

It's a real shame that with companies like these, the engineers who actually do the work of adding value are not the ones driving these companies. Instead, it's some jerk in a suit whose job is to figure out how to use their leverage to wring more money out of people.


Verizon now forces you to subscribe to a data plan (at varying prices) on the majority of their phones. They only have a handful that do not require one.


I was under the impression that ETF had to be pro-rated now, but the information in the article seems to indicate that they are still flat fees are Verizon... is this true?


It's still prorated ($10 off per month), but the starting fee was doubled.


Mobile pricing was coming down, etc. until the Sprint/Nextel merger. After that rates went up, plans got stingier, etc.

I don't understand why anyone would sign up for a 450 minute plan. Wouldn't every minute of phone usage be stress-inducing since the next minute might be billed at $0.45 ?

I also don't know why mobile companies don't automatically switch customers to the plan that would have been cheapest in a given month before sending the bill.


I have 300 minutes a month with free nights/weekends. I use maybe 50 minutes in a normal month. I use mostly email/SMS/chat because all of those things are free.

Mind you, I don't run a business or have family in different time zones, but it is very possible to use essentially no minutes and still communicate just fine for social purposes.


"I don't understand why anyone would sign up for a 450 minute plan."

I always use less than 450 minutes a month and have accumulated over 3000 rollover minutes with AT&T in case I ever use more. I guess I'm not popular enough to worry about that.

"I also don't know why mobile companies don't automatically switch customers to the plan that would have been cheapest in a given month before sending the bill."

I think there's a company that used to do that, or still does that. I remember seeing ads for it.


My two college-age siblings plus both parents are all on a Verizon "family" plan with something like 1000 minutes. It's absurdly stress-inducing, with fights and fingers pointed etc if the minutes start to run out.


It sounds like you have nothing like enough minutes


Not everyone needs so many minutes. In my iPhone usage, for instance, I could get away with almost no minutes at all (especially considering my thousands of rollover minutes). If I could, I'd just buy an unlimited data plan without voice and use Skype for calls. Sadly, AT&T seems to be going in the opposite direction by ending unlimited data. Maybe one day they'll instate rollover megabytes.


But what about a new customer with no rollover minutes?


I have a 450 minute plan. I've never come close to using all of it in a month.


I'm on a 450 minute plan... and have accumulated thousands of rollover minutes, so there's no risk of a marginal overage minute costing a lot. A small plan makes sense if you're not that chatty, or the people you're chatty with all fall into unlimited nights/weekends/in-network minutes categories.


very well, but wouldn't life be easier if you could just start out with 3000 rollover minutes when initiating the contract? Why must mobile plans hinge upon users making miscalculations and mistakes? You have been lucky (or are a rare case of low usage).


Oh, I agree less tricky plans and rules would be preferable... but I also understand how they profit the carriers, by serving to charge the price-indifferent and inattentive more.

Lots of AT&T practices screw me over -- most recently, being charged for calls that were never answered (but went to voicemail) while roaming overseas. But the availability of low-minute plans that fit my usage isn't one of the problems.

That those same low-minute plans trick others into paying overages? Not sure that can be helped. Those distracted by other things will always pay more.

Imposing fair disclosure or even a complexity budget on pricing by social regulation or unfair-practices lawsuits might make sense. But imposing a simplified/unified pricing on the industry is likely to backfire. The impetus to design competitive new services for niches -- like infrequent users, or heavy-data-users, etc. -- would be reduced, because innovation requires the same sort of variation that is exploited to confuse. And, regulated utilities can wind up extracting more from the rest of the economy in the long run from lingering inefficiencies and cost-plus regulated prices.


What is the best GSM network in the USA to sign up for using an unlocked Nexus One? T-mobile has lower rates if you DON'T get a contract, but perhaps somebody knows of a provider with even more attractive rates?


If you are wanting a single person plan Simple Mobile is a MVNO using T-Mobile's network. Unlimited texts/minutes/data for $60. I think prepaid cards are available via eBay that makes it even cheaper.




Guidelines | FAQ | Lists | API | Security | Legal | Apply to YC | Contact

Search: