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I have 2 friends in their 40s who are primary care physicians at Kaiser (one in Bay Area, one in Sacramento). Both have dropped down to 60% time (3 days per week), explaining that 60% time is actually 40 hours. In the last few years Kaiser has added both EHR work and e-medicine work without reducing the number of appointment slots. So, it's about 7 hours per day of appointments and then catching up on all of the deferred paperwork and emails.


Kaiser a shit place to work at for any doctor. Classic standard american BigCorp stereotypes everywhere.


Kaiser is a shit place to work....until you compare them to the alternatives.

I know a number of doctors who love working for Kaiser after having worked in private practice or at other hospital chains.


I've found a opposite experience. They seemed to like sutter the best, a bunch of others not bad and kaiser was so-so. It might be a case-by-case issue depending on the specialty.


But they still make 10x more than the average American.


Not true. A primary care physician at Kaiser makes a bit over $200K if they work full time AFAIK. Average American makes about $50K. Considering the 4 years of med school and 3 years of residency they are not overpaid. Specialists are the people making $500K+


$50K is household income.

Average income is more like $32K.


Median full-time individual income is $48,000. (Weekly earnings of $923 from [1] times 52.). The mean is even higher.

[1] https://www.bls.gov/news.release/wkyeng.t01.htm


Median personal income in 2018 was estimated to be $33.7k (https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/MEPAINUSA672N). And the BLS gives mean wages for family and general practitioner at $211,780 (https://www.bls.gov/ooh/healthcare/physicians-and-surgeons.h...).

Also, while I don't know about the competitiveness of jobs in certain locations, rural states can have some of the higher mean wages for fam and gen practioners (https://www.bls.gov/oes/current/oes291062.htm).


Not that much. They have half a million dollar student loans; they pay thousands of dollars a month in malpractice. And doctoes are very overworked.

Its not that great of a profession.


Then where is all this money going? Why does my health insurance cost $10,000/person of coverage, on top of deductibles and co-pays?



https://www.cms.gov/files/document/highlights.pdf

33% to hospitals

20% to physicians and clinical services

9% to retail prescription drugs

5% for other health, residential and personal care services

5% for nursing care facilities and continuing care retirement communities

4% for dental services

I can't find any clear answer to what proportion doctors earn themselves:

https://www.medicalbag.com/home/finance/health-care-costs-in...


In addition, you pay for profit for the insurance companies


Mostly admin. You could make healthcare a lot cheaper with cheaper doctors though, but its not that great a racket


Primary care doc is making 10x 55k? Doubt it's even 5x


Not the person you replied to, but how is that relevant to the discussion?




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