> Regardless, a framework is a way to jump-start someone in developing for a given language.
I tend to disagree. As a PHP developer, and in charge of hiring and interviewing other PHP developer, I all too often see what I refer to as "CakePHP developers" or "CodeIgniter developers". It's one thing to know how to use the various frameworks, and even have a personal preference - but when too many people are only aware how to accomplish things using one of those frameworks, it gets downright scary. It's almost as infuriating as getting code samples that are basic extensions of Zend classes...
In the end I want a developer to get their work done - and if a framework helps - great - but they also need to know their way around the language without needing that crutch.
If you had asked me 3 years ago to write PHP code to do anything, I would have asked you what PHP was. 6 months after the fact - and 6 months into using CakePHP - and I was definitely a useful PHP developer. I can say the same for those I used CakePHP as a model for.
As far as only knowing the framework, you are preaching to the choir. I regularly give support to people in IRC who forget you can actually write regular PHP code - Reflection class, closures, etc. - in CakePHP. Sometimes even OOP.
A framework gives you structure. Good developers go back and fill in the blanks on the language. Bad developers don't need a framework to be bad, they would give you horrible code samples regardless.
I tend to disagree. As a PHP developer, and in charge of hiring and interviewing other PHP developer, I all too often see what I refer to as "CakePHP developers" or "CodeIgniter developers". It's one thing to know how to use the various frameworks, and even have a personal preference - but when too many people are only aware how to accomplish things using one of those frameworks, it gets downright scary. It's almost as infuriating as getting code samples that are basic extensions of Zend classes...
In the end I want a developer to get their work done - and if a framework helps - great - but they also need to know their way around the language without needing that crutch.