>Every time you gloss over this, you give a pass to it and to those who knew about it and supported him anyway.
I feel this unique cherry picking of obviously terrible stances by President Trump is used to undermine so many trump supporters who chose to vote for him for a myriad of reasons.
If you chose to vote for Trump because of his economic policies and the benefits it would get you, you chose money over the safety of your fellow citizens. You felt your fellow non white citizens were less important than your 401k. That when white nationalists were chanting “Jews will not replace us” and the president would not condemn them you stood by him.
There is a massive list of horrible things this president has done. Many acts of fraud through out his entire life. An open child rape court case. Through all of this they have supported him. It’s not one cherry picked example. Trump supporters have nothing to hold up anymore. If you are one, look yourself in the mirror and say “I have been a terrible human being and American citizen, but I will work to be better”.
Trump supporters don’t deserve sympathy or respect. Trump supporting republicans need to earn that.
Trump lost support among whites and gained support among black, latino, asian voters [1]. Whatever it is that is going on is not as simple as you make it sound. Personally, I think Democrats need to simply stop talking as much about race and gender. Trump being an asshole about the topic doesn't mean that people care. Most people don't want to hear it. As another example, CA prop 16 was also voted down, in a minority-majority state.
As non-white person I find the average white liberal MORE racist than your stereotypical redneck/Trump Follower.The last one is in your face, but most of the time the racism comes from ignorance or fear, cure them and you will go a long way to diminish it.
The white liberal is way different, they see themselves basically as a superior person, the summit of human ethical achievement. They interject themselves into minority problems to show how much "they care" but 99% the acts are only to "virtue-signal", when push come to shove they will quickly align with any policy that makes their life easier, no matter the impact on the world.
More insidiously, the supposed tolerance and open-mindeness are very quickly thrown out of the window once a minority sub-group fail to align to their worldview. See for example the vitriolic insults received by Cubans/Venezuelans in Florida just because they "dared" to vote for Trump.
If I were to live in America, I think I would happier and more accepted among the "racist rednecks" in Idaho or Alabama that among the NY/SF liberal crowd.
As a non-white person that actually lives in the US, this couldn't be further from the truth. You're comparing the ideologically extreme liberal to the moderate conservative. I've visited enough states and experienced enough racism to know that it isn't a matter of "curing their fear". But sure, keep making the same baseless claims that far right leaning media make.
As a non-white person that also actually lives in the US, your comment couldn't be further from the truth.
America, the land of opportunity, is an incredible place for all cultures, and the best of its kind in the world. If you're looking for utopia, you won't find it anywhere, but this is nowhere near the hell you claim it to be. I would advise you experience what racism really is like when it's the entire nation and government like in the Middle East or even countries like Japan. Maybe that perspective would help.
>America, the land of opportunity, is an incredible place for all cultures, and the best of its kind in the world. If you're looking for utopia, you won't find it anywhere, but this is nowhere near the hell you claim it to be. I would advise you experience what racism really is like when it's the entire nation and government like in the Middle East or even countries like Japan. Maybe that perspective would help.
Stop trying argue with strawmen. No one is saying that America is more racist than the middle east. It is in fact possible to be less racist than Saudi Arabia and still have racist elements.
The context of this discussion is about comparative racism between different segments of the American population. It has nothing to do with America's international position on the racism scale.
And we're saying that we would rather deal with a tiny number of outright racists (who can be re-educated or ignored) than the vast pernicious soft bigotry and racism of the modern left that is infecting everything from academia to science. It's a classic case of "the road to hell is paved with good intentions" and the complete refusal to even discuss it is a major problem.
Are you having a problem following the conversation, or do you just purposely respond to completely different points than those made in the thread you reply to?
The simple fact that a comment made you compare me to "the far right leaning media" (Which one is that btw?, even Fox went extremely anti-Trump) says a lot about your tolerance. Ahi nos vemos mijo.
>If I were to live in America, I think I would happier and more accepted among the "racist rednecks" in Idaho or Alabama that among the NY/SF liberal crowd.
Since you don’t live in America, you have absolutely no idea what you’re talking about and you should stop talking like you do.
I'm sorry but you still have no idea what you're talking about. 'I know some Americans' doesn't cut it. Unless you've lived in Trump country for a while there's no way you've met enough hard core Trump supporting rednecks to make any kind of accurate generalization about them.
>Your comment reinforce my point instead of refuting it.
I live in one of the reddest states in the nation and come from a family full of those Alabama rednecks you talk about, and I voted Republican in every election before 2016. If you think I represent the liberal elite, you're dead wrong.
Good luck trying to get along with the rednecks you're talking about. Most of them don't want you here, and if they had their preferred immigration policy you wouldn't be allowed in. Many of the family members I talked about wouldn't even allow you to marry a person outside your race, and they'd prefer if schools were still segregated. Though they'd never say that to an outsider's face. And the majority of them outright support requiring Muslims to register with the government so they can be tracked.
This has nothing to do with the South btw, it's more of an urban rural divide.
I live in America, am a foreign-born naturalized US citizen, and I agree with them completely. Your comment is another example of the moral superiority and insults aimed at anyone who questions this soft-bigotry from the left.
Ironically, living in America usually means you have no idea about the level of violence, racism and suffering around the world, and lack much of the perspective of immigrants who sacrifice so much to move here.
live in a bright red state and the Alabama red necks make up a large percentage of my family.
Believe me if you lived in a small town with them you’d change your mind about which type of racism you prefer pretty quickly.
> Ironically, living in America usually means you have no idea about the level of violence, racism and suffering around the world, and lack much of the perspective of immigrants who sacrifice so much to move here.
It’s interesting you bring that up because if you come from a “shit hole” country, you wouldn’t even be allowed to be here if those voters had their way.
There are almost 8 billion people in the world. Even if 1% are bad, that's 80 million people. You're definitely going to encounter some, but America has way better quality of life because of the strong mix of cultures that mitigate such problems. Some "rednecks" in a small town is not indicative of the entire country, nor would you rather live in another country where that's the national norm.
The issue with immigration has been stopping illegal entry and ensuring the rest are valuable contributors to society. Nobody is stopped because of their national origin, nor has that ever been proposed. The USA still continues its green card lottery system which gives out many free slots every year. Very few countries come anywhere close to matching the immigration strength or desire of the USA.
> Some "rednecks" in a small town is not indicative of the entire country,
Neither is some asshole liberal you ran into once. Nor is the caricature of "Liberal elites" you read about in the National Review.
>nor would you rather live in another country where that's the national norm.
Who said I'd rather live in another country. You seem to be having the argument you'd like to be having rather than actually participating in a conversation.
>The issue with immigration policy has been stopping illegal entry and ensuring the rest are valuable contributors to society.
I'm sorry but if you aren't considered part of the in group, White Trump supporters won't admit this to you, but as a group they are terrified by the demographic changes in the country. Fear that their culture is being erased is the primary impetus behind their call for decreased immigration. Law and order, and calling for a points base immigration system is simply more palatable than outright calling for only letting in Whites.
>Nobody is stopped because of their national origin, nor has that ever been proposed.
Trump has instituted Travel bans multiple times. During his campaign he called for "a total and complete shutdown of Muslims entering the United States until our country's representatives can figure out what is going on." He also reportedly said "Haiti? Why do we want people from Haiti here? Why do we want these people from all these shithole countries here? We should have more people from places like Norway.”
His advisors and and multiple national Republican politicians have said they are afraid that White birth rates are lower than immigrant birth rates.
>The USA still continues its green card lottery system which gives out many free slots every year. Very few countries come anywhere close to matching the immigration strength or desire of the USA.
Again this isn't from lack of trying. Trump isn't a dictator, there are limits to what he could accomplish in 4 years.
Maybe because your entire argument boils down to “Actually the people that say they want to end racism are the real American racists. The straight up racists aren’t that bad. I know I really don’t have much experience to base that claim on but I know some American liberals on the internet.”
If you make claims like that, people on the internet who have experience with actual racists will call you on your shit. They will attack you because you are acting like a complete ass. And then you will sit around smugly using those attacks to build on your confirmation bias.
Ever wonder why you keep attracting liberal assholes? If you meet an asshole in the morning, you met an asshole. If you meet assholes all day long, you’re the asshole.
> Ever wonder why you keep attracting liberal assholes? If you meet an asshole in the morning, you met an asshole. If you meet assholes all day long, you’re the asshole.
The fact you say that without even a hint of self-awareness is amusing. You seem to have unresolved anger issues by the way you approach the discussion with people who disagree with you. All in all you seem a very unpleasant fellow so I wouldn't propagandize too much your supposed liberal values. Nobody will believe them.
That’s an interesting debate tactic you have there. Walk into a discussion full of smugness and unearned confidence. Resolutely make generalizations about hundreds of millions of people with no more evidence than “you have some internet friends”. And clutch your pearls like a self satisfied concern troll when you get called an asshole.
You really sound a lot like your imagined liberal bogeymen with your patronizing concern my friend.
Yes, because the "people that say they want to end racism" are doing far more racist things like changing laws to take race into account, something that you're accusing the "rednecks" of attempting to do.
1. The person I'm replying to has never lived here so they have no idea what they're talking about.
2. Group A systematically robbed and cheated Group B for centuries. Now that Group B has some political power and legal protections, Group A wants to pretend that "they can't see color."
Despite the fact that Group B has 1/10th the household wealth of Group A, are more likely to be arrested for committing the same crimes, receive harsher sentences for the same convictions, are much less likely to receive callbacks for job interviews, less likely to be hired for jobs they are equally qualified for, less likely to be approved for mortgages, less likely to be rented to, their dialect is considered linguistically inferior to Group A's, they are less likely to be picked up by a cab, and their children are even disciplined more harshly in fricking kindergarten.
Can you not understand how Group B isn't thrilled with the status quo with Group A's insistence that "they can't see color."
>something that you're accusing the "rednecks" of attempting to do.
1. They don't need to change laws to take race into account, because the system already does that for them.
2. Every single Trump supporting "redneck" I know supported the Muslim ban. And nearly every single Trump supporting "redneck" I know supported requiring Muslims to register with the government for tracking. According to survey's about 10% of them don't approve of mixed race marriages. And I guarantee from personal experience that the real number is much higher than that.
The only reason they don't get to enact the laws they want to, and the only reason they are afraid to publicly espouse their racist beliefs is because of the hard work of those left leaning Americans you despise.
Those left leaning American's you hate so much are the only reason most non white immigrants are even allowed to be in this country in the first place. The majority of my family doesn't even support birthright citizenship and would remove any non white citizens who's parents haven't been in this country more than a few generations if they could.
1) I live here so I know what I'm talking about. Either way, anecdotes are useless.
2) What is this nonsense about group A and B? Are we responsible for our ancestors? Are you prepared to say everyone in group B is responsible for any and all harm they collectively do? The answer is no, you would elect to treat people as individuals instead, so it seems it's you that treat the different groups differently by assigning collectively responsibility to only one of them.
3) "can't see color" is absolutely the correct way forward. We've spent decades proving that what you look like has nothing to do with your talents, motivations, interests, passions and character. We will never progress forward if you continue to discriminate and treat people by the very characteristic you claim is being used to discriminate.
4) The system is nothing but laws. Anything else would be up to how a specific individual deals with those laws, which is a problem with that person and not the system.
5) Anecdotes are useless. The travel ban is not what you claim it was, but perhaps you should look at how members of that religion handle racism first. You won't find any multiculturalism there, that's for sure. As a foreign-born naturalized US citizen, I don't support birthright citizenship either. It's unique to only the US and Canada, not the norm, and repealing it would solve many problems.
6) I don't hate left-leaning American's. This is your projection, clouded by your bias and judgement. I only hate policies that enact the very discrimination they aim to solve, created by people who are ignorant in the problems they aim to fix while ignoring all consequences of those solutions and further blocking any potential discussion or feedback.
7) No, the modern left is not responsible for any of that. America is a melting pot and has been for centuries. This is not some new development, it existed for generations before you and there are no serious attempts to stop it. Again you keep using anecdotes to say a few people are representative of the whole. Is there a country without criminals? Does that mean we all commit crime? Clearly not, so why don't we look at what actually is the reality instead.
Do you think that systemic racism exists? That is do you believe Black people when they tell you their life is harder because they are Black. Do you believe that job interviewers discriminate against Black sounding names? Do you believe that Black people receive harsher prison sentences all else being equal? Do you believe that Black people have a harder time renting homes? Because there's hard evidence to back up every single one of those claims.
All of those issues and more combine to create a reinforcing feedback loop that creates a permanent lower class within our society, that erodes trust in institutions, increases crime and, directly impacts our economic development.
What specifically do you propose we do to end that feedback loop?
2. This isn't about blame. It's about ameliorating an issue that harms all of us. And it's only indirectly about our ancestors. There are people alive today who were directly harmed by the laws that were put in place by the municipalities, states, and the country they live in today. People who were never compensated for that harm.
3. Pretending that you "don't see color" is an absurd response. Of course you do. Everyone does and everyone has implicit biases. The key is to recognize those biases, and sometimes to consciously correct for them.
4. > The system is nothing but laws.
That is naïve to the point of absurdity. I'm sure if you think about it you can come up with a few counter examples.
5. If anecdotes are useless, why do you keep brining them up?
> The travel ban is not what you claim it was, but perhaps you should look at how members of that religion handle racism first.
The travel ban that Trump called for during the campaign that won him votes was much more expansive than what was actually enacted. He also suggested that we should register all Muslims.
A survey in 2016 said that 40% of Americans called for a registry of Muslims, the results were heavily correlated with party affiliation. I'm going to give you 1 guess on which party favored registering Muslims.
>but perhaps you should look at how members of that religion handle racism first. You won't find any multiculturalism there, that's for sure.
What happened to treating people as individuals not as part of a group?
6. >It's unique to only the US and Canada, not the norm, and repealing it would solve many problems.
I thought the US was an amazing unique melting pot? There are many conservative and liberal argument for how the melting pot is helped by birthright citizenship.
7. You really need to read a bit more history if you think this is true. Look up the 1965 immigration act.
> America is a melting pot and has been for centuries.
The Chinese exclusion act, and country based immigration quotas favoring European countries were the norm through most of that time.
>there are no serious attempts to stop it.
Here's a conversation between Steven Bannon and Stephen Miller (Trump's current lead advisor on immigration)
---------------------------------
“Isn’t the beating heart of this problem, the real beating heart of it, of what we gotta get sorted here, not illegal immigration?” Bannon asked Miller. “As horrific as that is, and it’s horrific, don’t we have a problem? We’ve looked the other way on this legal immigration that’s kinda overwhelmed the country?”
Bannon goes on to decry the “oligarchs” of Silicon Valley and Washington and call the number of immigrants in the United States “scary.”
Miller’s response is affirmation: “The history of America is that an immigration-on period is followed by an immigration-off period,” he said.
-----------------------------------
Bannon and Miller are both obsessed with preserving "western"(European) culture. If you aren't from a European country, you very likely would not have been allowed here had Steven Miller been in power when you immigrated.
Except it's not... I grew up in a lower middle class, majority hispanic town in California and the racism towards black people and even their own race is very prevalent. Unsurprisingly, we had a few trump caravans drive through our town in the past few months.
No, you wouldn’t and it would be extremely clear. Reality is not changing because of anyone wishful thinking. I sincerely hope that you would never live in such environment, you may regret very very much your view. Maybe you are not aware, but to me it looks like that you are similar to a turkey hoping for thanksgiving. Actually you remind me of that black guy that was critical about BLM and was adamant that he never had any problem with the police because he respected the law. He was shot and killed by the police: https://www.newsweek.com/jonathan-price-defended-cops-facebo... . If I were you I would be very careful about what you wish for, you’ll never know, maybe at some point your wish will be granted sadly.
Trump getting 12% of the black vote in 2020 is up from the 8% he did in in 2016. That sounds like going from really low to not as but still really low.
I don’t think Democrats would be taking so much about race and gender if Trump wasn’t dog whistling so much.
I'm no fan of Trump, and I have no evidence, only opinions. But, maybe not all Black people are huge fans of the activist wing supported by many Blacks and other minorities? Seems like that could explain him getting more votes, by more actively pushing back against it.
> I'm no fan of Trump, and I have no evidence, only opinions. But, maybe not all Black people are huge fans of the activist wing supported by many Blacks and other minorities?
The activist wing was defeated in the primary, and wasn't an option they were presented with. Many blacks are not supportive of the centrist wing and it's devotion to the interests of corporate capital and it near-total-absence of a working-class message, which, when it's the only thing around, makes right-wing economic populism, which does center around working class economic messaging (even if those of us on the progressive side might see it as both an ineffective platform if genuinely pursued, and much of it also a dishonest mirage being dangled as a manipulation strategy), if not exactly attractive—especially when visibly associated with virulent, violent racism—possibly seem the lesser near-term evil.
Obviously, or he wouldn’t have gotten 12% of their vote. In 2016, he got a statistical 0% of the black female vote (not sure about 2020), so that percent is probably a lot higher for black males (eg 24% if he got 0% of their vote again this year). I’m not sure what to make of that.
Trump gained 4 points each for the black male and female vote, that would put him somewhere around 16, though I’m not sure what that article’s basis was. Still, those are starting from really low numbers to begin with, a lot of it could just be noise.
Democrats have been very bad at elections. This election shouldn’t have been this close.
Nothing changes the issues with Trump. People looked at Trump as a candidate and decided to vote for him regardless of all those things about him, and for that they chose to privatize themselves over the nation and their fellow countrymen.
>they chose to privatize themselves over the nation and their fellow countrymen.
Incorrect from their point of view. They saw him as a lesser threat to stability through his policy decisions. I know, because I asked. Further, it is hard to argue with the results when you had Democrat cities getting burnt to the ground and there being no effort put into curtailing it which philosophy of leadership would genuinely lead to a safer polis.
In fact, many of them voted that way, because they thought it was better for the country.
Demonization and dehumanization of the other side gets you either nowhere, or in an increasingly bad place. I strongly advise against it.
Choosing candidates based on how well you think they’ll manage the economy is not a matter of just choosing one’s 401k over other priorities. Bad economies, especially in formerly prosperous countries, tend to lead to many much more obviously horrible things. In many ways, you can tie the rise of Hitler to the economic devastation of Germany in the aftermath of WW1. The Great Depression had some powerful effects in the US, as well - fascist and communist candidates gained a lot more traction than they had previously.
Not to say that Trump was the man for the job on any of this, just that you shouldn’t wave away people’s prioritizing of a strong economy as greed driven.
This constant obsession with race and skin color from Trump opponents is why many minority citizens voted for him in the first place.
If your entire statement breaks down at the existence of the first non-white Trump supporter than your position isn't as accurate or valid as you think.
That’s not how arguments work. There’s plenty who care more about themselves then others, regardless of skin color, race or gender. There’s the concept of f yours got mine. Also Trump just kept saying socialist even though that was so far removed from anything truthful, but people hear socialist and think that must be bad.
That's how most people vote, on all sides, and they have no responsibility to vote any other way. That's how democracy works.
Yet you clearly made a statement of all of his voters as choosing one thing over another. Perhaps you should revise that then, according to your new statement.
We have to find a way to come together and just assuming half the country is terrible doesn't lead anywhere good.
Reasons people might support Trump in spite of his many many shortcomings:
Trump has generated a middle east peace deal with UAE, Saudi etc. recognizing Israel which helps pave the way for stability in the region.
We have not entering any new proxy wars during his reign.
Trump banned lobbyists from the white house (although this one turned out to be a net negative because then the much of the white house staff members became defacto lobbyists--for instance Michael Cohen was paid around 10 million from various fortune 500 companies to help bring their interests to the president)
His stance on not murdering babies (which is how many prolife members see abortion, your mileage may vary--I am pro choice myself).
Trump has appointed many "true conservative" judges, so if you consider judicial appointments extremely important and are conservative you might support him for that reason.
What about the fact that Richard Spencer, who started and led the Jews will not replace us rally and was the leader of the white nationalist movement at Charlottesville is now a CNN contributor and endorsed Biden. And the fact the president did condemn them, repeatedly.
Trump passed the most comprehensive criminal justice reform bills of the last 20 years.
2020 Trump has the best percentage of vote share among republican presidential candidates from Hispanics, Jews, and African Americans of the past 50 years so maybe he isn't quite as racist as he seems.
You could believe that school choice is the most important civil rights issue of our time.
You think that the government has not right to be mandating lockdowns, school closures, etc. And have seen many instances of overreach from democrats.
Very low trust in the media and other "ruling" elites whom Trump seems to be constantly embattled.
There are of course lots of reasons to support Biden.
As VP he oversaw a very successfully timeframe of American history, with economic growth, political and social stability.
Trump has a tendency to say many things which are dog whistles/outright racist.
Trump speaks about women in derogatory ways.
Instead of bailing out local governments and schools during the coronavirus, Trump was pumping money into large corporations.
Biden takes climate change seriously. We are likely to see a green new deal.
Biden is likely to increase social safety nets during a time which is likely filled with economic uncertainty.
Biden isn't doing saber rattling with China threatening a second cold war.
Biden/Obama created a peace deal with Iran with the potential to bring stability to the region.
Its hard to judge policy, but Biden's character is much much more appealing than Trump's.
Biden is likely to bring a sense of dignity back to the office.
Biden is not a divisive figure and can help heal the country.
Biden is likely to bring police reform.
Trumps response to the coronavirus has been terrible. He basically left it up to the states instead of showing leadership. Moreover he was constantly spouting whatever nonsense it was that he was spouting.
Biden is likely to try and do something about the growing inequality in the country.
Biden has shown he can lead competently.
It's hard because conservatives and liberals tend to not only have differing personality traits, they tend to have underlying philosophies, priorities and thought patterns (personal anecdote not science). But we have to find ways to love each other despite our differences. Much love, I hope Biden does great things for the country and the next four years are prosperous, full of love and happy.
It's hard to understand China through the lens of a western upbringing (as I'm sure is the case vice versa).
Sabre rattling with China. I'm no expert but have spent 15 years doing business in China.
A very firm position is the only one they respect (although they will claim otherwise). If you offer them concessions they will take them and at the same time respect you less. In many western countries concessions are met with good favour. This is rarely the case in China in my experience.
> Trump has generated a middle east peace deal with UAE, Saudi etc. recognizing Israel which helps pave the way for stability in the region.
No, Trump had virtually nothing to do with that...
Anyone with even a passing familiarity of the Gulf region knows that the UAE and Israel have not been at war. On the contrary, the countries have had diplomatic relations under the table for quite some time now. The UAE even hosted an unofficial Israeli embassy at IRENA in Abu Dhabi.
The reason why full diplomatic relations took so long is that the UAE government had to gradually prepare the populace for the announcement. Everything else was in place way before Trump became president.
So why was it announced that way? My guess: Trump claimed that he brokered this “deal” to earn brownie points with Americans, and the Emiratis/Israelis got to earn points with Trump. Win-win.
What I fail to understand, as a foreigner, is how someone can vote for a president who is an outright liar. Look no further than his last tweets as of right now. He is denying that he has lost and is insisting that there are illegal things happening (I'm not saying there aren't, but I will go the extra mile and say he has lost it and that only a manchild would say otherwise -- this manchild).
I could not go to bed with a clear mind knowing that I voted for a lying disgusting piece of trash, even if that meant that I was voting for the one whose policies I "agreed with the most".
I guess I _get_ it if you view politics as sports. Sports fans (in the EU) will support their club to death. The president of a football club can be corrupt and they will still probably back them so that they can back the club.
In both cases, these are twisted, unhealthy stances.
I really cannot fathom how so many Americans can vote for this piece of trash human being. I don't think all these people are bigots, racists or idiots; I simply cannot understand how someone can be comfortable with having a piece of shit as the face of the country.
I used to love America and the idea of going to it. I used to think it was lead by hardworking (albeit maybe _too_ hardworking) people. I used to think that maybe healthcare wasn't "that" important because it was _AMERICA_. I can't think like that anymore because a very significant part of the country chooses to be portrayed by an _objectively and openly racist, sexist bigot_.
Heck, I think I'm right leaning on most stuff in life, but I could never ever carry a straight face knowing I contributed to this disaster.
I would rather vote blank (I'm a strong believer in doing just that), against the system, than vote "for" a pig so as to not "vote" for the opposition (a typical argument used by trump "non-supporters who vote for him"). At least the opposition wouldn't put America to shame in such a magnitude. In my country America is now used as an example of what not to be, what not to do. We tolerate its undeniable leadership in the world; we no longer worship it or look at it as somewhat of a better society. It used to be the other way around. What happened, America?
>>. What I fail to understand, as a foreigner, is how someone can vote for a president who is an outright liar. Look no further than his last tweets as of right now.
I don't fully understand it myself, but as it's been explained to me by trump supporters is: "don't listen to what he says, look at all the good policy, look at how hard he is on China, look at how many jobs there were pre covid, etc etc". Whether or not you see his policy as good, some people do, and they are willing to overlook his madness because they think he is achieving good things. (actions speak louder than words, etc) Some of his supports do bring up his appointing of tons of federal judges, and this what I would probably consider the most valid reason for voting for him (if one is aligned to a more conservative viewpoint), as his judges are more likely to enforce (or not) the laws that align with "traditional" republican political ideals, and that's the what matters to the voters.
Or also because they've always voted R, and Biden= socialism (which is worse than satan worship according to some people's moral codes..), or Biden= Let our cites get burnt down by rioters. This goes back to the, it's easier to vote against someone than for someone. And now that I put this all in words, this second justification is probably what I heard the most during trumps 4 years, some peoples defense of trump always came down to, "but hillary would be way worse". Some level of cognitive dissonance definitely plays into it.
Also having some subset of the population support a populist, pathologically lying sociopath is not necessarily a new or uniquely American problem. It's just that the problems seem to be amplified when they are American, cuz everyone is watching.
Nationalism and authoritarianism is a thing. It’s all over the world. Like the surges of salafist movements in the ME every few decades, the same is true in with democracies.
The question is whether it is an outlier or the norm. I’m old enough to remember when racism and anti-semitism was common, then not (at least vocally).
America is a diverse culture. Why Euros are confused about it, they haven’t studied history. How would a country like the US would turn out as when Puritans, Calvinists, Scots-Irish and whatever other rejects from Europe were sent or fled from their homelands?
US politics is structurally messed up and there will be more escalating drama in the coming years/decades that will definitely leak internationally. With mechanical issues like the electoral college being deeply flawed, to more innate issues of the system like the two party system reducing the entirety of politics in the USA to an adversarial binary, it will just get more polarized and ensure the disenfranchisement of even more people than now. This is a minor win in a sinking ship, IMO.
The thing that will leak internationally is the rapid and unsustainable increase in the US debt. The political shuffling is just rearranging the deck chairs in comparison.
After Trump getting elected once and then somewhat close again, I look at the US as a could be a dictatorship soon country.
Someone like Trump but instead being a bring person, could have won the elections I think, and then, via internet surveillance, find the opposition and fabricate charges and put in prison?
Combined with maybe forcing FB to show only ads pro one party?
As of now, and 2 hours ago (according to the timestamp on your post) Trump is technically correct. The best kind of correct. He hasn't lost. Votes are still being counted in something like 10 states, as ridiculous as that sounds.
Contrary to popular belief, the AP doesn't decide who is elected president. Shocking, I know.
>What I fail to understand, as a foreigner, is how someone can vote for a president who is an outright liar.
American politicians lie through their teeth as a matter of fact. No one gets or delivers anything they campaign on. This is by design. However, I'm still in your camp as well. I can't understand it at all. He didn't get off the first week of his campaign before I was dead refusing to vote for him.
However, I couldn't vote for his opponents either, which is where I think a lot of people get caught out, and where I think we have a real weakness in our system. That someone like him even got to that point is a testament that apparently anyone can do it. Just be a bull headed, pathologically lying charlatan and find a way to insert yourself in the nations political apparatus when the time is right.
This is not mere cherry picking, these are actual statements, far outside the norm of any other politician at the national stage, that have resulted in violence and even death in the United States.
How can you be discouraged by acknowledging the full spectrum of what this president has encouraged? What are you willing to sweep under the rug to white wash clearly bad behavior?
That reminds me of the McGregor’s legacy joke (a bit vulgar but https://www.reddit.com/r/Jokes/comments/feuz6/whats_that_jok...). The gist is that people are noted for the horrible/crazy/strange things they’ve done, even if they’ve done other things as well (eg Hitler is never going to be noted for his work on animal rights and vegetarianism).
The point is it should be a disqualifier. There is nothing that can convince me to vote for a person who endorses white supremacists. I cannot compromise on equal rights for all humans.
He takes both sides of lots of issues. You could make a page-a-day calendar out of quotes where he has taken opposite sides on an issue.
It's a strategic decision, and it's very effective. The white nationalists can look at what he says and say "ah, he wants us to stand by. Sure, later he'll disavow us, but I got the message. wink wink." And then the people who oppose white nationalism can say "see, he disavowed it, so that clarifies everything - nothing he said before meant what it sounded like."
Our president not only condones white supremacist groups but dreams about harness their hate and violence. If noticing the somehow undermines Trump supporters that’s not cherrypicking it’s justice.
I feel this unique cherry picking of obviously terrible stances by President Trump is used to undermine so many trump supporters who chose to vote for him for a myriad of reasons.
Its discouraging to see