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Are you under the impression that everyone here is in the same kind of position of power that you are?

1. Not everyone here is a coder.

2. Not everyone who codes is in the US, or a small number of other countries, where salaries for coders are high.

3. Not everyone lives in a part of the US with multiple employers that they could work for (relocation may be infeasible for various reasons).

4. The company may be sponsoring the worker's visa.



Some of us remember successfully saying "no" well before we became coders.

Even for supposedly low skill minimum wage jobs, finding reliable employees that show up on time, don't steal, don't get high at work, stick around and get things done, and otherwise aren't a pain in the ass to work with - can be a time sink and cost. Even the most selfish manager may tolerate some pushback and some "no"s if it means they don't have to go through all the work to hire someone "better" (which might require hiring and firing a lot of unknowns to arrive at, even if there's plenty of applicants.)

The vengeful and dysfunctional might fire you anyways, even if it's more work for them, if only to flex their power. The downsizing might not want to replace people. Life circumstances might mean you can't be reliable and are already on the fence (or - to put it another way - you might already be saying "no" to too much to say "no" to more without getting fired.)

So, sure, there are people without power. But - perhaps it's not quite as bad as jiggawatts is making it out to be either.


1. If I didn't have my brain, I would be a plumber. These guys start earning when they are 18 or younger, and make a shitload of money because we have a shortage here. So even if you work with your hands, you can choose something that is in high demand.

2. Coders in US and EU are doing OK. Coders in Ukraine and the likes (I have multiple colleagues in that region) are absolutely killing it. They earn about 2x less than us, but 10x more than their neighbors. They don't borrow money to buy a home, they just buy it.

3. No idea about that one. But in US it's so hassle free to start your own business.

4. Yeah, then it's up to you what your options are, and how much you are willing to put up with.


> 2. Not everyone who codes is in the US, or a small number of other countries, where salaries for coders are high.

I don't have much stats, but this is true in countries that I know of: US, Switzerland, Germany, Poland, Ukraine, India

So I wouldn't expect other countries to be much different, it might depend on company you work for, if you stay in small < 10 people places, you won't get much salary as a coder.


Is it possible that the entire reason that you know about the coding salaries for these countries is precisely because the salaries for coding are high there?

Like, I live in the US, and I knew someone who transferred to Switzerland and got a pay raise for cost of living increase. So when you mentioned Switzerland I was thinking, "Well, yeah. Zurich is an expensive place to live, and there are some big engineering offices there." But I've also met software engineers who seemed pretty miserable when I've traveled to other countries.


No, I just know people in those countries.

Poland, Ukraine and India aren't exactly hugh cost living places compared to Zurich or SF.


Anyone can have a voice in the outcome of their life and society around them. When you give up on this belief, you relinquish power and control to others. The squeaky wheel gets the grease.

Stop focusing on the power of others, and obtain your own power and influence, and then govern with empathy for others.


Are you saying that people without power do not exist? Or are you saying that when someone does not have power, it is their fault? I am not sure you are saying either of these things, but I am finding it difficult to make any kind of charitable reading of this comment.

Positive thinking only gets you so far. When taken TOO FAR, positive thinking becomes a delusion. We with loving families can thoughtlessly & brutishly suggest to a friend that they “should definitely reconcile with their father”, because the idea of abusive parents is outside our experience.

Same applies to things like companies. I can easily tell people to “obtain power and fix problems” at work, but it is not necessarily possible. If we pretend that conflict does not exist, or can always be solved by the right actions, we’re just hurting people.


I am saying that assuming or accepting you have no power or less power than others is a sure way to create that reality. Are there limits. Sure. But there are countless examples of people that created more than society would have “allowed”.

Put another way. Ignore inequality as it effects you, assume you can overcome it. But acknowledge its existence with respect to others and do everything in your power to create equality.


> Ignore inequality as it effects you, assume you can overcome it. But acknowledge its existence with respect to others and do everything in your power to create equality.

This sounds hopelessly inconsistent to me. Why should I hold myself to a different standard than I hold other people to? If acknowledging inequality elsewhere is required to be kind to other people, that means that ignoring inequality when it affects me is being unkind to myself.


Because it is effective.

If you assume you can’t do something you definitely won’t. If you assume you can, you may not succeed; you may be blocked by some external cause, but not by something you could have controlled.

In the case of helping others, you may play a role in clearing an obstacle that, not withstanding their own effort and belief, would have blocked them.

In both cases you are assuming you have power. Power to help yourself and power to reduce inequality by empowering others.

This isn’t a contradiction.


It is sometimes effective. It is sometimes a harmful delusion.


It's a good rule of thumb. It's the difference between accepting and acknowledging. You can acknowledge the hardship of others but still fight against your own.

I don't tolerate inequality, but I do know it exists. It will continue to exist if we don't fight it.




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