> AirPods Max are aimed squarely at Apple devotees – of which there are millions – who simply could not bear to be seen with a pair of Beats headphones, even though Beats are superb.
You see this all the time in critical reviews of Apple products. The implication is that people who buy Apple products do so because they're irrational cult members, not because they rationally consider the device worth the price for various reasons.
I suppose I would be considered an "Apple devotee", in that I make my living doing Mac and iOS development, and own plenty of their hardware. I also have AirPods Max, and I think they're great.
"Superb" is not how I would personally describe Beats' stuff. I recently worked on repairing some Beats Solo 3 Wireless headphones for a friend. They're made like every other cheap, flimsy, plastic consumer electronics device, with lots of glue, plastic clips, and fragile mechanical parts. (One of the headband hinges breaking necessitated the repair.) If you're OK with the tradeoff between quality and price, by all means, buy Beats. (I think you're better off with a much cheaper competitor, considering the relative difference in quality is low to non-existent.)
By contrast, the AirPods Max are clearly a well-made, premium device, using metal, premium materials, and clever engineering. Add it all up with the good sound quality and usual integration with Apple's other hardware and software, and it's a device that's worth the price to me. If you don't value those things -- which is perfectly fine! -- it may not be worth it to you, but it doesn't mean that anyone who would buy them does so because they're a brainwashed Apple fanatic.
> The glib answer would be people with more money than sense. But it’s more complicated than that. AirPods Max are aimed squarely at Apple devotees – of which there are millions – who simply could not bear to be seen with a pair of Beats headphones, even though Beats are superb.
It kind of makes the whole review irrelevant to me, and I would say the review is mostly aimed at people who would never want to buy Apple products in the first place.
But you are brainwashed, thinking you need metal on your head instead of plastic which is far superior and lighter. You literally convinced yourself that an inferior product is great. Not that beats are the top of the line, they never were, but using AirPods Max vs Sony 1000MX4 is night and day.
I own Sony 1000XM3s, and have since they were released. I've really enjoyed them. However, I like my AirPods Max much better, mostly because of their better UX around pairing/multiple devices and better onboard controls (digital crown vs. touch gestures).
I also own older Sony Bluetooth headphones, Sennheiser HD-650s, a pair of Bose QC-20i, and several other headphones ranging from cheap to mid-range. I'm confident I can judge what I personally prefer.
Oh, I definitely think the comparison would be unfair if price weren't part of the comparison. I'm just arguing that for me, the price premium of the AirPods Max is worth it, because they have things about them that make them more valuable to me. I'm by no means arguing that Sony's are bad. I've been very happy with them.
> But you are brainwashed, thinking you need metal on your head instead of plastic which is far superior and lighter.
What a strange sentence. Most reasonable people would probably agree nobody "needs" neither plastic nor metal on their head, but rather when enjoying music or other sonic entertainment pick one or the other for any number of reasons, probably not including that they've been brainwashed into thinking they need this or that material to do it.
Their point (I think) is that plastic is a better material choice in this context.
The original assertion that one product in better because they use "premium materials" like "metal" falls into the same trap of "Things made of metal are better than things made of plastic", which is a nonsense schtick that Apple's been selling people for years.
This seems to have missed that I also talked about repairing cheap plastic Beats headphones recently. I don't really care if my headphones are made out of plastic or metal. I do care that they don't break easily. As a heuristic, for consumer products, those made out of metal are generally more durable than those made out of plastic. There are of course very strong plastics, used to make very well engineered devices, and also junk made out of metal. But as a stand in for all the details that would explain why one consumer widget is more durable than another, "it's made of metal not plastic" is pretty decent, and I'd argue well-understood by most people.
Worth noting that I'm an engineer, and have designed through to manufacturing things made out of both metal and plastic. I'm not unaware of the subtleties.
Oh, I agree, durability and reliability are important, and it can be harder to get those right using plastics. Personally, I enjoy the fact that every single part on my Sennheiser HD25's can be replaced easily, and they're made of plastic.
I just dislike the "Oooooo metal! Must be good!" when it's a lot more complicated than that.
Well regardless, the ease with which people take up arms against anyone who like something different from them is strange.
There are no objective truths about metal or plastic as a material for headphones, just what people prefer. I love the metal. But apparently, enjoying my headphones means to some that I've been brainwashed. I find the assertion ludicrous on its face.
That's true in theory but often wrong in practice.
You could conceivably make products with such as thing as "premium plastic" (some companies/products do), but the overwhelming experience people have with plastic is that it's often cheap injection molding, breaks easily, doesn't look good, etc.
You could also build crap with metal, so of course there's nothing inherent to those materials.
Most "audiophile" is placebo. We did tests with higher end speakers, $2000-5000 stuff, nothing crazy from Maggies to Marlos, to B&Os to compared effects of amps, preamps, cables. We did a regular test and most of us felt the higher end stuff sounded better. Than i decided to do a blind test. The cheapest stuff usually win.
Beats also add weighty components to feel more premium. I think that is as bad of a trend as making vacuum cleaners louder to seem like they are working better.
Yes, and that's part of my point. A brainwashed, irrational Apple fanatic should be convinced that Beats are magically amazing and worth whatever price Apple decides to charge.
The fact that they didn’t catch high thermal conductivity induced water condensation during testing makes me pause.
They could use some cool composites typically used for the military from 3M if they wanted to fix it though. Curious to see if gen 2 is plastic or not...
"In Cupertino, the summers are long, comfortable, arid, and mostly clear and the winters are short, cold, wet, and partly cloudy. Over the course of the year, the temperature typically varies from 43°F to 76°F and is rarely below 36°F or above 85°F."
That's not "Sunnyday Perfect Weather California" to the effect that it would have thrown the AirPods Max design off ("wow, other places go cold/wet? Who knew!").
The parent said "Sunnyday Perfect Weather California", imagining the whole of a huge state (and especially the Bay Area) as some LA/San Diego style constant sunshine...
I mean, the point is that the weather conditions in San Francisco are pretty non-representative.
It’s not like, for example, the Northeast where during a cold winter day I pretty much expect my glasses to totally fog up instantly when transitioning between outdoors and indoors.
The NE is pretty "non-representative", too. What is this "cold winter day" you speak of?
This whole portion of the thread is kind of pointless anyway, unless someone truly believes the design spec for the ambient operating temperature limits was based on local Bay Area weather.
In my experience, the AirPods Max have been fantastic, greatly exceeding my expectations. The noise cancellation and sound isolation is excellent. While they are heavier than some of my other headphones, they are at least as comfortable because the pressure is so evenly distributed by the mesh design.
I find myself using these a lot, and able to wear them longer. I also have high-end professional wired headphones and amplifiers, as well as regular AirPods.
I bought at least 20 pairs of, sometimes expensive, headphones over the past years. I settled with the Sony XM2 for their sound signature and price point a few years back.
I bought the AirPods Max out of curiosity and I can attest that most comments on internet are from clueless people that like to bash products.
The sound signature is nowhere near any Sony or Bose headphone.
They just destroy them.
The build is exceptional, my Sony or Bose look like toys in comparison.
But like many other things, sound for people is not that important, meaning not 200$ important enough.
Just like, the latest TV technology is not that important for me to update to the 4K latest OLED TV. My old one LED is enough.
AirPods Max compare to the Beoplay H95 which are 200$ more expensive.
So in this case, why buying anything over the Bose or Sony price range ?
The AirPods Max are a pleasure to use like all high end overpriced headphones out there. And please don’t tell me that most of the times you are not paying the brand on any high end product.
How would you rate the sound quality relative to your high-end professional wired headphones? Aside from potential latency, is there any reason you couldn't use the former in place of the latter?
APM is considered to have one of the best sub-bass representations of any wired or wireless on-ear headphones. It's seriously that good. But for the other aspects: mid-range, treble, detail, separation, sound-stage they are comparable to a $200 headphone e.g. from AKG. Something like a Hifiman Sundara or Sennheiser HD650S which you can pick up for 1/2 the price are easily 2x as good.
So if you like fun, bass-heavy tracks you will love APM. Otherwise probably not so much.
But you don't buy APM for sound quality alone it's the convenience, integration, spatial audio etc.
Frequency response is great, relatively flat over a wide range and the bass is tight without being boomy. Sound stage is quite good. Certainly better than most inexpensive headphones. However, it isn't as articulate as more expensive wired headphones, which may be a function of practical power constraints in a battery-powered device (there is a reason you need an external amplifier for some of those).
It could definitely be used for real audio work, with caveats. I think it would be similar to mixing with the venerable (and uncomfortable) Sony MDR-7506, which significantly outperforms its price range and also has a pretty flat frequency response but suffers from reduced articulation. If you are accustomed to using expensive high-impedance headphones you would notice the difference in detail but, like with the MDR-7506, it is good enough for most purposes.
tl;dr: great for casual use, even for people picky about audio quality, and quite usable for most professional purposes though not up to the same standard. That aside, very comfortable and you can use them for conference call marathons that greatly exceed the battery life of normal AirPods.
> So will AirPods Max significantly cut into the market share of other high-end noise-cancelling over-ears from the likes of Sony and Bose? I doubt it.
LOL, statistically speaking Apple is more likely to prove this statement wrong than right.
> Will they bother the genuinely high-end market? No.
Really? To me if seems that this is _exactly_ the market which will see their shares being eaten up by AirPod Maxes.
> With AirPods Max, Apple also isn’t cannibalising its own AirPods and AirPods Pro models.
Duh. Yes of course not lol. These are different devices for different purposes. It's like saying "I don't think Apple will cannibalise the tablet market, because iPads are also not cannibalising the iPhone models"
> Really? To me if seems that this is _exactly_ the market which will see their shares being eaten up by AirPod Maxes.
I highly doubt it. High-end audio is a niche market. Whoever was already willing to pony up >$500 for a pair of cans, will likely ignore it. The reason for it is that audiophiles are looking for features that the AirPods Max do not have, e.g. neutral signatures, manually-only adjustable equalizers, and open back drivers. Who is going to plug this on a $2000 amplifier, and why? Doesn't make sense.
This product is set to compete with high-end lifestyle headphones, like the Beoplay H95. In that market, it will mostly be hugely successful. But the "genuinely" high-end audio market? Not a chance.
It's a niche market with mostly a lot of low quality build products (and a lot of snake oil).
I have Sennheiser HD650s. They sound good, but they feel like cheap plastic, they require an amp to drive them, they have a 1/4" jack and need an adapter etc. The HD555s differentiated themselves from 595s by stuffing foam into the ear cup to make them worse (the drivers are the same).
I think AirPods Max will end up replacing a lot of this premium market because they're almost as good and they categorically win the other bits (wireless, easy sync with apple devices, nice build, etc.)
There will always be a small contingent that wants something different, but I think there are probably more people like me that want something better than your average headphones but the design quality that comes from Apple.
> I have Sennheiser HD650s. They sound good, but they feel like cheap plastic, they require an amp to drive them, they have a 1/4" jack and need an adapter etc.
Nothing here would make a consumer of high-end audio disregard the HD650. In fact, most of these consumers either own an amplifier, or have accepted the fact that amplifiers are needed for certain audio listening needs, so what would be the issue?
> I think AirPods Max will end up replacing a lot of this premium market because they're almost as good and they categorically win the other bits (wireless, easy sync with apple devices, nice build, etc.)
What I'm reading here is a disconnection between what "high-end audio" means to you, compared to what it actually means to the average audiophile.
That average audiophile may or may not buy into the AirPods Max, to fill the need for portable, good sounding headphones. Or they may go for Bose, or Bower and Wilkins, or Bang & Olufsen. But these all belong to a different category in the audio world, compared to high-end HIFIMAN or Sennheiser.
In short, I can guarantee that the folks already rocking a McIntosh and a pair of expensive HIFIMAN, are not going to replace them for the AirPods Max. They are just not in the same league.
Have McIntosh and HD800S. Still considering AirPods Max as an addition, not a replacement. I have Bose QCII35s and they are nice, but so are my AirPod Pros. Having another headphone that has elements of both sounds interesting.
High end audiophiles are using AND operators, not OR in purchase decisions.
Even if these were better than a more-obscure headphone maker's product, the people who buy those headphones wouldn't buy these SPECIFICALLY BECAUSE they're made by Apple.
Just try them yourself and see if they’re worth the price to you.
Similarly the Apple duo charger all the reviewers write about being overpriced and not worth it is actually great. It photographs poorly, but in person it’s a huge upgrade over the nomad phone/watch charger I had been using.
And the in ear ones with the flat cable (I think they’re called tour).
A total of 4 products across every price range
I started with the cheaper ones and kept increasing the price because I had naively assumed that I had just cheaped out and that’s why the quality was kinda crummy compared to my older £50 sennheiser in-ears.
But even the PROs sounded only slightly better than the sennheisers at 10x the price.
I bought some bose QC35s and they’re significantly better than both.
If the author thinks Beats are good quality or high fidelity then I worry about the rest of the review. Frankly.
I'm considering getting rid of my Sennheiser HD800 after using AirPods Max for a while. Of course they don't sound better than my HD800, but I find the sound quality good enough.
After wireless headphones started to emerge, I've always wanted to replace my dac, amp, headphone setup into a single headphone and I'm satisfied with AirPods Max. HD800 is obviously for home use only, so for the past few years, I've been trying to find headphones that have good enough sound quality, wireless, noise canceling, great build quality and design, great comfort at the same time, and I think this is it.
Treble of AirPods Max is more similar to HD650 than HD800 which is slightly less bright. And the bass is what I find very interesting. AirPods Max not only has very good bass, they feel more like they are coming from speakers than most other headphones. To my ears, the bass is on par or even better than HD800. Overall, I still like the sound of my HD800 more, but AirPods Max comes close enough for me as a replacement. In fact, I like them more than HD650 and Beyerdynamic T1 which I've owned in the past.
One thing I want from them is system wide spacial audio, or for music at least. You can use spacial audio for supported apps and videos only. The experience is amazing and I would really like to use spacial audio for other things as well.
I’ve had my pair for about a month now. I’m not an audiophile by any means, and I didn’t know it was possible for audio to sound this good. These are a quantum leap better than the Bose and Sony headphones ANC headphones I’ve owned, on a sound quality, aesthetic, and functional level. The noise cancellation was a little questionable at first, but it seems to have improved somewhat (firmware update?), although I was hoping for more. My biggest complaint is I wish they were lighter, and gripped my head better. I’ve had them nearly slide off my head when I leaned my head back to drink.
I found the ifixit teardown interesting. I wonder if the “open” case is a nod to the fact these are made incredibly sturdy and only the inside of the cups need protection. Still, I would prefer if they were completely encased.
After years of owing all kinds of Apple gear I think it makes sense to assume any Version 1 product from them will be vastly eclipsed by Version 2. It seems to me they usually sandbag Version 1 such that a waaaay better Version 2 is easily achievable. Lesson here - be wary of a V1 from Apple because a year later a much better V2 is going to be available.
The reality is that Apple knows you will probably buy both.
To me these are absolutely worth the premium over the closest competitors due to the ANC modes, spatial audio, wireless protocol & device switching, and build quality. If you think a 300 pair is a better value, I’ve got news for you: there are some $60 pairs on amazon that you might find to be an even better value. These are not for cheapskates. They will sell well.
While the guy from Dankpods is definitely an Apple devotee, I think his review of the Airpod max, while silly, made a good case for why they are expensive and why you might want them.
According to him you get the best fit, best build quality, best ANC, best sound stage, great microphone and near best audio of any wireless headphone (when they didn't break) - so of course they are going to be the most expensive wireless headphones and of course you can get better sounding heaphones - but then they need a preamp and a wire.
Well, most people swear by their Airpods, people also like the Magic Keyboard, Apple Watch is better than any smart watch out there, and the Apple Pencil has been universally praised as better feeling than Wacom's (that had a 20 year headstart). So there's that...
The main benefit of their wireless headphones is the relative ease of switching devices if you're using multiple Apple devices. Use an iPhone, iPad, and Mac? They'll switch (somewhat intelligently) between devices. I'm listening to music on my computer, get a call on my phone and answer it (which I could technically also answer on the computer), it'll pause the music and switch the headphones to the phone to use with the call. When the call ends, I manually resume the music on the computer and the headphones switch back. Listening to an audiobook on my phone, and I switch to the iPad for a video it pauses the audiobook and switches the connection to the iPad. When I start up the audiobook it does the same in reverse.
The quality seems to be on par with many other wireless headphones I've used over the years, but I'm no audiophile.
Using other headphones, though, aren't that big of a hassle. But you do have to manually switch which device they're connected to (a two or three step process depending on device).
For myself I'd say the AirPods Pro (and the AirPods I had before them) justify their price many times over. Same with the watch for me but I've been on the smart watch bandwagon since the Pebble so I might not be a good example.
I avoided AirPods because "I had tried BT headphones and didn't like them" in the past. I got some for Christmas one year and found out how magic they were to use. Pop them out, put them in your ear, instant audio. That has been unmatched by any other BT headphones I had tried before.
I've never tried Beats (neither they nor the new AirPods Max interest me) so I can't speak to that. As for cables I only by Anker with the exception of the Apple Watch changer which no one (other than Apple) seems to get right.
They'll still be popular. The brand is worth a lot to folks.
Not that anybody's asking, but I really think people would be better served with a quality set of wired cans or IEMs (Sennheiser, Audio Technica, Shure, etc) attached to a FIIO BTR3.
As someone who did basically this 7 years ago, I have to strongly disagree. Active noise cancelling is important. It doesn't matter how great the fidelity the headphones are if there's a ton of external noise and closed cans can only attenuate so much. In a perfect something like the Senheiser HD880 would be the best headphones ever but in a noisy office/plane/train/home environment the noise cancelling with lower fidelity drivers would give better total fidelity.
That being said people are probably better off spending hundreds of dollars less for something like a Sony WH-1000X or Bose QC than the AirPoxMax.
ANR... in my experience, it’s better to go for straight attenuation. My personal recommendation is IEMs, which can be quite comfortable for long-time wear. They’ll give you a greater reduction in sound than the best ANR technology, and they’ll do so without the weaknesses of ANR (has some weird edge cases where frequencies are not equally lowered).
Being fair, ANR technology is fatiguing to my ear; it makes them hurt as if I’ve been listening to loud noises for too long. I’ve heard this from a few others as well, but it definitely drives me towards passive attenuation.
IEMs are notoriously unforgiving. You would need to try quite a number of them as well as tips in order to find one that is comfortable for long-term use. Variety of people's ears are that diverse.
And in most cases the only way you get good isolation is by having a strong seal which in turns means a strong vacuum which for most people becomes uncomfortable.
It's one of the reasons why on/over-ear are so popular because they work well with pretty much everyone.
1) IEMs can be custom fit to your ear, for half the price of this pair of cans.
2) Comply comfort tips, in an appropriate size, have worked for everyone I’ve ever chatted with about IEMs. Those who don’t like IEMs never tried to change the tips (and honestly, most people don’t realize you can; defaults and all that).
3) A strong seal does not imply a vacuum. IEMs are not hermetically sealed; air is allowed past.
4) IEMs are used by musicians of all shapes and sizes, which kinda puts lie tot he statement on how they’re unforgiving.
5) Based on some impromptu research (walking down the streets of NY), the most popular headphones are actually earbuds. IEMs are a lot closer to earbuds than cans are. In fact, if we’re looking at, say, AirPods pro, an IEM is barely different (though you get more choices in tips).
But you've complete missed the point. APM are designed for home/offices where noise-cancelling is the critical feature.
You can get some IEMs that will isolate enough to give you a similar effect but almost all of those are not comfortable enough to wear for 8+ hours a day.
On ear/over-ear etc headphones aren't noise cancelling and often have poorer leakage making them inappropriate for home/work.
ANR maxes out at around 20db in an ideal environment, and is not equal in its coverage of frequencies. Good closed back over-hear headphones will offer around 10db of attenuation, and IEMs will isolate to 25db or greater (on par with earplugs).
And with good tips, IEMs are indeed all day comfortable.
On a more anecdotal note, I (and others who have spoken up on HN) get fatigued by ANR, similar to as if I’m listening to too-loud music. That, and the frequency issues with ANR, have pushed me more towards IEMs.
What's the intended use case for a device like that? Like, ultimately my headphones are still wired into a device I need to carry around, and Bluetooth isn't good enough for me to be able to walk too far away from wherever my phone has ended up.
They’re clipped to your body, and your phone (or computer) doesn’t have to be. It’s also the size of a pack of gum - tiny.
They also don’t use standard bluetooth codecs, they use a different “HiFi” codec (I don’t know the details; but it’s significantly higher quality audio), and the range is pretty good - across the house or further for me.
It looks like the BTR5 is more feature rich, and has slightly better components. But, price for quality, the BTR3 has been fine for me (it drives some high sensitivity headphones (Shure 535) better than anything else I own).
You see this all the time in critical reviews of Apple products. The implication is that people who buy Apple products do so because they're irrational cult members, not because they rationally consider the device worth the price for various reasons.
I suppose I would be considered an "Apple devotee", in that I make my living doing Mac and iOS development, and own plenty of their hardware. I also have AirPods Max, and I think they're great.
"Superb" is not how I would personally describe Beats' stuff. I recently worked on repairing some Beats Solo 3 Wireless headphones for a friend. They're made like every other cheap, flimsy, plastic consumer electronics device, with lots of glue, plastic clips, and fragile mechanical parts. (One of the headband hinges breaking necessitated the repair.) If you're OK with the tradeoff between quality and price, by all means, buy Beats. (I think you're better off with a much cheaper competitor, considering the relative difference in quality is low to non-existent.)
By contrast, the AirPods Max are clearly a well-made, premium device, using metal, premium materials, and clever engineering. Add it all up with the good sound quality and usual integration with Apple's other hardware and software, and it's a device that's worth the price to me. If you don't value those things -- which is perfectly fine! -- it may not be worth it to you, but it doesn't mean that anyone who would buy them does so because they're a brainwashed Apple fanatic.