> The court only confirmed what we already know – that "open source" is a term of art for software that has been licensed under a specific type of license, and whether a license is an OSI-approved license is a critically important factor in user adoption of the software.
The court confirmed no such things. The decisions expressed in these two documents regarding the use of "open source" as a description of the product in question hinge upon the fact that someone else's software was released under a new license by Defendant, who had no authority to do so.
The court did not care to define open source, except to clarify that a license used previously by the Plaintiff is an open source license, and a license used subsequently is not. The court also did not consider any license-approving practices, let alone those of the Open Source Institute, of whom I find no mention in either document used to justify OSI's claim.
Yeah, that entire paragraph is complete and total bunk. If you go the trial court's opinion regarding the "free and open source" bit:
> The parties agree that the truth or falsity of Defendants’ statements hinge on “the interpretation of Section 7 [of the Neo4j Sweden Software License], and GFI’s right to remove the Commons Clause from the Neo4j Sweden Software License.”
The court isn't deciding if ONgDB is "free and open source" according to a lay definition of the term, it's deciding if ONgDB has the right to license it in that matter, since that's what the parties are asking it to decide. In other words, if the statement is "ONgDB is a free and open source version of Neo4j", the operative words being challenged aren't so much "free and open source" as they are "version" (or more specifically, the implicit "validly licensed" phrase).
OSI has been trying really hard to claim the term for themselves in a dishonest way, even though they were not the ones that invented it. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26507460
That's not really convincing. Sure the term "open" and "source" have appeared in conjunction together previously, but it was rare for it to be used as a proper noun, instead of an adjective describing a noun, and even if it was, it was OSI that populized the term.
Regardless of any historical context, in contemporary usage, "open source" has a commonly understand meaning and its what the OSI says it is. Other meanings make as much sense as pointing out that computers aren't machines, but a job title.
> "open source" has a commonly understand meaning and its what the OSI says it is
I would contest this, based on the many discussions there have been on HN about this, as well as many people (including many "normal" software developers who are not deeply invested in open source) I've met and talked to over the years having only a vague notion of what "open source" is exactly (often being something along the lines of "you have access to the source code").
I'd be willing to bet a substantial amount of money that if you were to ask 1,000 random software developers about Open Source, the OSI, and the OSD over half of them won't be able to give you a coherent answer on what these things are exactly.
This is the crux of the issue, really. Who did or did not invent the term isn't necessarily all that important: the thing is that in common understanding it doesn't really have the clear specific meaning in the minds of most, whereas for others – I would argue a minority – it has a very clear and very specific meaning, which inevitably leads to friction.
I guess the point of "Open Source was used before the OSI came along" is to demonstrate that it's a term that has a kind-of "obvious" meaning, and has been coined independently of the OSI's coining more than once. People don't hear "Open Source" and then consult a precise definition, they hear "Open Source" and assume it means what it says on the tin. The same applies to "Free Software", a term with 15 years more effort to explain what it means exactly, with even more limited success.
It seems to me that attempting to educate a landmass about a term with an "obvious meaning" is a futile effort; there have been many language pedantics over the years, and I don't know of a single attempt that has worked out. You're welcome to try as far as I'm concerned, but it seems to me that there are many more fruitful ways to spend time and effort.
> I'd be willing to bet a substantial amount of money that if you were to ask 1,000 random software developers about Open Source, the OSI, and the OSD over half of them won't be able to give you a coherent answer on what these things are exactly.
How about if you pick 1000 random devs involved in licensing? I don't see that it matters what a random dev knows, so long as the group using the term knows and has a consistent definition.
To put another way, how many people actually know the precise definition of the term "organic" (as used in grocery stores)? Probably not that many, at best they have a vauge notion, and the term has much wider used historical definition than open spurce does. I would still say its morally wrong for a company to use an alternative "definition" to attract customers to their product. It would be false advertising in exactly the same way misusing open source would be, regardless of what their customer base knows about the details.
I think it's first important to define what we're talking about, before talking about it. If a certain set of people have 'a very clear and very specific meaning' of what it is, and another set 'doesn't really have the clear specific meaning', then I think it's pretty obvious which definition we should go with.
It's not obvious at all. There are many people who have all sorts of very specific ideas about language and how it ought to be used. They are usually ignored by everyone except themselves and people who agree with them already.
I don't get why so many people are so obsessed with language. Over the last few decades terabytes of data has been used to discus this, and to what effect? I would actually argue it's been a net-negative since it has put many people off, and has been a distraction from far more pressing matters.
If you're talking hacker vs cracker, linux vs GNU/linux, then sure, its mostly a waste of air.
As far as "open source" goes, its in essence a brand of a cultural movement. And like real brands, some unscrupulous people want to enrich themselves off the brand by making a substandard product but pretending its the real thing. This is harmful to users who are swindled and it is harmful to open source devs whose reputation are stained by association. (To make the metaphor concrete, an example of a swindle would be someone makes open source software which isnt really, then sues all its users that use it in an open source fashion. This hurts the users, but also hurts people who make open source software because people cant trust the brand anymore)
"And like real brands, some unscrupulous people want to enrich themselves off the brand by making a substandard product but pretending its the real thing"
I am unsure if you mean the OSI people or the people who disagree with the OSI definition here.
People are obsessed about it because on one side you have a bunch of people trying to redefine it to mean whatever set of obligations they feel like e.g. 'You open sourced it so now you're responsible for it' etc. etc. and on the other side you have people trying to hold the line and say 'No, that's not what open source means'.
You're basically arguing to turn 'OSS' into a meaningless blob of text that anyone can interpret as they like.
The OSI definition of open source matches what almost everyone thinks of open source. It's the most useful definition. The Stallman gang have wasted over a decade trying to redefine open source to weaker terms making it useless and insisting that everyone use "Free software" instead which is insane since the world does and always will think of free as in money.
We all may have different opinions about Stallman, but one - I believe - undeniable thing is that he's an extreme purist/idealist, and he would ceaselessly fight for any cause he believes in. Even for a totally lost one. And here, "open source" is practical, but "free/libre software" captures the essence (which "open source" misses).
Open source as defined by the OSI which is what most people agree with, is exactly identical to what RMS calls free software. RMS wants open source to mean what most people call "source available".
We have the terms source available and open source which are well understood and has no ambiguity but RMS and the FSF want to push their free software term and have to change open source so their term isn't obsolete.
It's nothing to do with being a purist or ideal. Because the wider understanding is exactly as pure and ideal. They just aren't the words RMS wants us to use for those meanings. He is obsessive but not for any real gain.
It has to do with the English meaning of words both generally and for software in particular. Free, as in freedom, is a much stronger word than open. This distinction is longstanding in the business. See for example the Open Group[1]. Those of us who can remember the past are well aware that the OSI specifically tried to co-opt the free software movement for commercial gain and specifically used the weasel term open to appeal to the suits without any of that pesky user freedom.
> The terms “free software” and “open source” stand for almost the same range of programs.
The article goes into some cases where RMS considers OSS to cover things that are not free software but these are about small details and certainly don't include anything close to "source available".
> The Stallman gang have wasted over a decade trying to redefine open source to weaker terms
No they haven't. The disagreement over free software vs. open source is about the idea behind it not about what rights are granted by open source or free software licenses.
> Defendants' representation that ONgDB is a "free and open source" version of Neo4j® EE was literally false, because Section 7 of the Sweden Software License only permits a downstream license to remove "further restrictions" added by an upstream license to the original work.
It makes sense to me that if the court believes the defendants had no license to use the code at all, then describing it as any "licensed" version would be improper, whether their product was released under a "free and open source" license or even some other kind of license.
I don't fully understand the second part of the sentence about removing the restriction, but I think the court is just explaining why the defendants have no license.
> The court did not care to define open source, except to clarify that a license used previously by the Plaintiff is an open source license, and a license used subsequently is not.
In the Appeals Court decision I didn't see anything affirming that the Plaintiff's license (the text of which is AGPL + Commons Clause) was "open source". EDIT: There's more in the trial court decision.
I understand how it can be misread though. In the documents it does seem like the court is taking a stance, but in fact it's punting on that because the two parties agree.
Because both parties agree that AGPL + Common Clause can't be classified as "free and open" the court can decide if ONgDB is "free and open" by determining if it's licensed under AGPL + Common Clause. The court doesn't have to have an opinion on what "free and open" means, because the involved parties are already in agreement.
The court confirmed no such things. The decisions expressed in these two documents regarding the use of "open source" as a description of the product in question hinge upon the fact that someone else's software was released under a new license by Defendant, who had no authority to do so.
The court did not care to define open source, except to clarify that a license used previously by the Plaintiff is an open source license, and a license used subsequently is not. The court also did not consider any license-approving practices, let alone those of the Open Source Institute, of whom I find no mention in either document used to justify OSI's claim.