No one wants to. Wayland is the successor to X11, X devs now work on Wayland. Gnome has first party support for Wayland because the same devs also work on Gnome and Red hat.

The inconvenient truth is they are working towards a cohesive desktop experience, even supporting mobile. X11 will still be here, but you can't blame the devs for wanting to move on.

Operating systems should be designed for all humans, not just programmers. Gnome seems to be the only DE that cares about accessibility. All of your settings and extensions mean nothing to someone who needs all of their apps to work with a screen reader.

This article and these comments suck. No one wants to contribute code, just opinions. Reminds me of the systemd FUD.

You can fork, hack, make your case with Wayland, maybe it gets merged, maybe you just maintain your own fork. These criticisms by people who aren't going to contribute anyway are getting tired.

I'm seeing Thomas Dickey (xterm mantainer) and some other new people, along with Coopersmith who is a old-timer in Xorg development, slowly taking over Xorg.

I find myopic that GNOME and KDE are working towards a cohesive user computing experience starting from "one-size-fits-all widgets" and data as an afterthought. Red Hat freedesktopers aren't designing anything for all humans, they always tire themselves on some all-encompassing project then adapted for two niche use-cases that generate revenue.

But I don't care no more, I'm using Xorg and Xenocara, runit, will probably going to hack on Arcan someday.

And yet, for all the gnashing of teeth, those people never seem to appear.

Fixing X11 is basically shaving an infinite number of yaks. Wayland is the X11 developers trying to bound the problem to a finite number of yaks. They can only do this by punting everything they possibly can out of the system.

To be perfectly honest, the Wayland developers don't have an option.

Screenshots are a continual complaint--but it is by no means settled as to what entity and mechanism controls the security and permissions behind that and how. Punting window decorations to the clients is annoying--but any other choice likely means that you need a full text rendering system in your window manager. And if you want an "interesting" task, go help both the X11 and Wayland devlopers deal with all the race conditions and problems around the "simple" task of integrating with Vulkan and getting/presenting a surface and handling the swapchains (extension VK_KHR_surface, VK_KHR_swapchain, VK_KHR_xlib_surface, VK_KHR_wayland_surface)--lots of bugs exist and have since 2015. Try tackling the sequence of events around "resize"--you're in for an eye-opening experience.

Yet, even after the Wayland guys atomized this stuff, nobody in the open source software world is picking up the work. Maybe the DeadRat guys are rejecting submissions, but I suspect it's more that people simply aren't willing to grind through this stuff. It's a bunch of detailed, system-level programming with LOTS of gotchas all over the place.

Dunno. Maybe they should say that they are rewriting it in Rust. That might actually attract some people willing to put in work.

I keep hearing this and yet I keep being able to use X just fine.

If anything, Wayland has gotten XOrg and other DEs to fix a lot of X11's shortcomings for general use. Gone are the days of having to edit xorg.conf and pray it doesn't brick your monitor.

Wayland and "an Xorg user experience that's not a disaster" came from roughly the same developers because of the same needs. Generally lots of stuff was moved out of Xorg into places where it fits better, into the Linux kernel (modesetting!), into Mesa, into application frameworks. This development is what made Wayland possible in the first place. By making large parts of Xorg obsolete, you enable a solution that trims out all the old garbage that nobody realistically needs anymore and hence nobody wants to maintain anymore.

See, all of that makes a lot of sense. What doesn't make sense to me is

"Hey, so decades of work has gone into Window Managers and Desktop Environments. How will we preserve those going forward with this?"

And the answer appears to have been "Eh, we wont. Maybe later? They can just rewrite them all or something." Madness.

Because the developers of window managers and desktop environments are precisely the people that benefit from foregoing backwards compatibility and getting rid of all the duct tape and zip ties that hold the modern X stack together. It is true that a duct-taped thing can work very well after sufficient iterations, but you absolutely don't want to be maintaining it.

I can use DOS just fine, but nobody ain't maintaining it.

Great. If X is like that that's an even better argument for "who cares about Wayland."

I am currently dependent on Xvfb and xdolib and frankly I don't care. Adding options doesn't take them away

Not when those options are designed to crowd out the old thing, which is what I believe the strategy from Red Hat et al is.

Freedos is maintained.

By that metric, so is Xwayland.

(I knew someone would have mentioned the modern DOS emulation layers and missed the point.)

But XWayland does nothing in the situation of a Wayland compositor not working for a user. It's just for X11 application compat, while the problems discussed here seem not that.

The other possibility is that it is feature complete and bug free.

You think it's a possibility that a large C project is bug free?

Well, I guess theoretically that might be true...

If Wayland is useless without GNOME, that's reason enough to maintain it.

What do you mean? Wayland obviously isn't useless without GNOME.

On my Thinkpad T60, Wayland is useless with and without GNOME. It just doesn't work, and nobody on the project gives a shit. So, instead of shelling out for a new computer when the one I have works fine, I stick with X11.

Fuck Wayland.

Everytime I ask for help with broken Wayland (which it is OOB across hardware and distros), I'm told it can only be me, because it works for some. Apparently Wayland is worth shilling over for some.

Fortunately Xorg works splendidly.

Forces far greater than you have decided that Wayland is the go-forward solution. Therefore, you will live in the pod, eat the bugs, and use the compositor because all the maintenance and advancement effort is behind Wayland.

I refuse.

If everyone cancelled free software because it wouldn't run on windows or Mac OS we wouldn't have very much of it.

Why do you expect that your laptop from 2006 need to be supported by wayland ?

Why are you angry on wayland ? Because they try to make things better for normal people ?

I like how you can say this about literally any complaint or feature request. It's the perfect deflection!

Your comment is deflection and straw man. Why Wayland should support 15 years laptops? Why do you think it is reasonable to shitpost on an open source project because it refuses to bend over backwards for you?

I'm not asking for full-on 3D acceleration with vsync. Just use the fucking VESA framebuffer instead of making my laptop look like it snow crashed. People should not have to throw out otherwise working hardware because a bunch of nerds who weren't bullied enough in high school don't feel like putting in some effort.

Then use the old version of Linux that works with your hardware. Why other people should care about your ancient hardware. You can either fund work to provide support or write code yourself and see how easy it is.

I was using until recently Sandy Bridge platform, and It works fine. I am not expecting that it would be supported forever. There is a lot of performance and maintainability left on the table because of support for old devices. If anything, I wish for Linux world for more aggressive deprecation policy.

> People should not have to throw out otherwise working hardware because a bunch of nerds who weren't bullied enough in high school don't feel like putting in some effort.

You can just leave Linux community, nobody will miss you.

It doesn't work if the person has a modern laptop.