I’m currently on a grandfathered plan. When that’s up I’ve thought about whether I should look around elsewhere due to the price increase. Ultimately I don’t think I want search to be a race to the bottom. There’s no guarantee that any service provider will remain aligned with users and privacy long term, but kagi is bootstrapped and I’d rather pay more than push them toward needing to look for other monetization strategies that might be more adversarial to my interests.

I was more talking about their search. It was fine, but it wasn't worth the money for me. The browser didn't really pique my interest on release but I wouldn't expect it to be great on release (they're still a small company, but they're doing some really ambitious stuff which is cool)

> their browser is irredeemably buggy

Seconded. I gave it a few months, but it just wouldn't improve by itself. To be fair: With a detailed bug report (via Discord, making it excruciatingly hard to find duplicates/follow up), the problem would often be fixed in the next release.

But it wasn't 1 or 2, it was more like 20 easily spotted issues. Come on, I can't do all of your testing.

I think I've never said it this clearly because I don't want to offend (I still very much like the browser's concept), but it was just too painful for regular use for me.

This about a year ago. Your comment seems to indicate that it hasn't changed.

Fair enough. We do have over 2,000 open issues [1] for the browser, so buggy is probably an understatement.

But we are getting there. More than 1,500 issues have been addressed.

And Orion is the fastest browser on Mac and completely zero telemetry at that. Give us a bit more time..

[1] https://oriongeedback.org

*https://orionfeedback.org/

I hope you are measuring and attributing churn to its causes.

We are zero telemetry. Luckily our users are very vocal :)

I applaud your privacy stance, but you might want to implement minimal feedback mechanisms, because you are not going to hear from people who leave.

Early adopters tend to be more vocal. If your product becomes successful, you will have to satisfy less vocal, regular users.

That is an interesting take, but we :

a) do not want to jeopardize zero telemetry nature of the browser

b) we hear a lot from users who miss "just one thing" for Orion to be perfect

c) no amount of telemetry would tell us why someone does not like the browser

For it’s worth, you’ve been very responsive to my feedback, so thank you! It’s not perfect, but I’m really liking it so far.

Not sure how orion is related. You can still use kagi search (or neeva) with any browser ...

I've rage quite Orion a couple times. But I keep going back. Some of the features are great. I use multiple browsers anyway so I'm ok with using Orion for the bulk of my browsing, then using other browsers each for certain sites or for certain uses. I'd love to work for them but I don't see a viable business model.

My SO uses multiple browsers as well although I can't make head nor tail what their "strategy" is for choosing. I doubt that having to switch up browsers is acceptable for the public at large.

I imagine there's a /reason/ you were using kagi, and that reason is probably privacy related? Why then would you use neeva as an alternative? Started by ad execs. There is zero chance neeva has your privacy in mind, no matter what they say about it. They are focused on pushing consumer products. This requires user profiles.

> their browser is irredeemably buggy.

Are we talking about Orion? It is one of my absolute favorites!

> On to neeva.

Not available where I lived last I checked, which also means I now don't like them.

Please someone who knows neeva let me know if they are good enough to forget that they disrespected me last time ;-)