IMO it's fine. I had a Galaxy S9 a few years ago for two weeks (had to return it because of hardware issues) and it felt nice to use, smooth and modern. I've used many kinds of phones in my life, dumb phones, Symbian, Windows on PDAs and smartphones, Android from 1.6 up until now, and even though I'm firmly team Apple at this moment, I have to say that not having a dedicated "back" button or gesture and only occasionally showing a "back" arrow in the top-left corner (i.e. the one you can't reach one-handed) really stands out among the stupid UI decisions I've seen. Yes, iOS is fast and polished, it's just that pretty often I'm not sure how I got somewhere and how to get out.
Swiping left to right from the leftmost edge of the phone onto the screen will execute the "back" function with or without the presence of a "back" arrow at the top-left corner.
I was actually looking forward to this coming to iOS, but it’s one of the things that work great until they suddenly don’t. Back from a photo in Photos? Swipe down or top left corner. Hide the keyboard? Middle right. Back from someone’s profile in Messages? Swipe down or top right. Back from a PDF in Files? No swipes, just top right. Some of these do make sense if you follow closely how the UI elements fly onto the screen, but are confusing if you don’t.
You can't swipe across the opposing screen edge with your thump without letting go of the full grip on the phone and holding it only partially, risking it to fall. Glass phone body only makes things much worse. You can do it with a back button in a sane position though, without compromising a grip. Android allows navbar gestures since ver.10 and I never enable them because buttons are simply better, even though they take away some space on the screen.
I switched to iPhone 13 Mini because there's no recent and small Android phone anymore. On the Mini, you can easily reach that screen edge. Which just drives home the point that those gigantoscreens are a bad idea.
Dropped my iPhone 13 around 4-5 times, on the floor, in the bathtub without water, on the desk. Not even a scratch. I was afraid of the glass back but this thing _is_ sturdy. "Risking to fall" was a good reason about 4-5 years ago, but since then the devices got much better protected from falling IMO
Dedicated back and home button is the reason why I always buy a refurbished Galaxy S7 after I break/lose it. This is my third is six years.
I like that the price to pay to maintain the same experience actually goes downwards. Who knows how long it will keep working like that?
Hopefully I will be able to put lineageOS or postmarketOS on it when the software eventually stops working. Maybe some day I get to be an amazing linux hardware programmer like Caleb Connolly and am able to mainline S7 support in linux like he did for the SnapDragon 845, whatever that means
> Who knows how long it will keep working like that? Hopefully I will be able to put lineageOS or postmarketOS on it when the software eventually stops working.
You'll be fine, if I break my current phone, my next one will be a Galaxy S4 as well, some people do run Android 12 on it nowadays, the battery is replaceable and the phone is so cheap used that it's not even worth worrying about.
but now they added this task switcher to iPad which also appears when dragging from the left edge, and now going back is like rolling a dice. you don't know how how to go back without triggering the task switcher so it ends up taking multiple attempts to go back without the OS consuming the input
Not on iOS, which I believe OP is referring to. On Android you can swipe back. But I just tried this on my iPad and it does not work. For the longest time I never even _noticed_ that "<back" link in the upper-left corner!
As an iOS app dev, swipe to go back definitely works on native iOS apps. If you find an app it doesn’t work in it’s probably an app built in whatever cross platform UI framework which doesn’t implement the gesture.
Additionally, one can always swipe the bottom bar to switch between apps.
Even native iOS apps have some terribly inconsistent back behaviour, particularly when handling overriding swipe functions.
Eg Photos seems to change Back on almost every view. Swiping back navigates around albums and locations and such. Until you open a photo, then it flicks between individual photos.
If you are looking at a photo and want to return to album view you need to click the Back arrow at the top left.
If you swiped up to view photo details and want to go back to the photo, you need to swipe down.
If you are Adjusting photo details, you need to click Cancel at the top left.
If you are editing a photo and want to go back to the photo, you need to click Cancel, which is at the bottom left this time.
The only place I don't notice a back button in Photos is the top right. But that's exactly where Books puts it.
On Android, every single one of navigations would be performed by the dedicated back button/swipe. Which might explain why the iOS Google Photos app seems to just stick with a top-left back button on almost all views.
You definitely can swipe back on iOS, I do it all the time and AFAIK it's the primary recommended way to go back. You have to swipe from the edge though.
Yes it does on iOS, it might just be that you misunderstand how the mechanic works. Swiping back will never exit you out of an application. But for example if you go Settings → General → About and then swipe back two times you'll end up back on the Settings screen.
iOS happily kills backswipes with inconsistent alternatives.
eg View details in Photos, and swiping back doesn't work. But there are also no back buttons or visual cues. But there are 3 ways to get out of that screen AFAIK, which some might label intuitive.
But if you go one step deeper and Adjust the photo details, the only exit is a Cancel button.
A virtual smartphone experience is a pretty cool demonstration of how smooth web apps can be. I'd love for other companies to also make these types of demos available so you can try out the software design before you spend money on it.
I didn't know about the dialer/Google Meet integration, that's a pretty smart move. The messages app being labeled "Android Messages" was also a surprise, I don't know any other brand that uses this exact messenger. Maybe the point they're trying to bring across there is that texts are just as good as iMessage?
It all feels pretty close to native though the web UI is still a lot choppier than the real UI. For any real UI demo you'd probably need an app rather than a web app, but I don't think Apple would allow such an app on the app store.
I'm not sure why Samsung is trying so hard with the ads, though. I get it, you really like the New And Exciting Samsung Galaxy S23 Ultra Plus, you don't have to repeat it every other screen. I'm also not sure why they've gone all in on these influencer videos, the acting in them is so obvious it made me cringe. Is this what American ads look like?
The way phone makers seem to be making phones more averse to web apps (apple’s 7 day eviction of web site data springs to mind), I don’t think this is the takeaway they want you to have.
So when I proxy with HAProxy I was not forwarding client IP. And so Nginx and Peertube ended up thinking all connections came from same source. And this was probably leading to overly aggressive rate limiting at times.
I have now fixed parts of the configs so that now Nginx and Peertube are aware of the real client IP address.
Funny that you pick on the hardware. I'd use an Apple phone if it could run Android, the hardware is the only positive thing I say about Apple stuff. My girlfriend has an iPhone 14 Pro Max and camera/microphone are good and and the lidar stuff is pretty cool.
The software is completely and utterly unusable for me. It reminds me of when I used to help my grandparents with technology, except now I am the grandparent. Nothing works like I'd expect and I just find it frustrating.
There are Android phones in a similar price range and I'm not really tempted to buy any of them. I would buy an iPhone running Android though.
Yeah, I don’t get it, I used to be an android user since the first Galaxy S up until the Galaxy S7, I’m really sensitive to slow devices, so as soon as my androids got a little slow (usually after a big update) I switched to the new shiny one. Then I got tired of buying flashy and expensive phones that lasted 2.5 years so I give the iPhone X a try. It’s 2023 and I still use the same phone I still get updates and what’s more important to me those updates haven’t slowed my phone a bit. It still feels the same. I’m not coming back as long as Apple keeps my old phones fast.
My iPhone 4S and iPad 2 were destroyed in performance after update from iOS6 to iOS7 (and helpfully without possibility of downgrade, thanks Apple), plus a lot of apps were deprecated in that update due to some API changes or whatever. That's just adding more data points to the legend of "perfect updates on the iPhones".
My Samsung phone is 3 years old, it got 3 major updates over these years, and last update was 29/03/2023, a little more than a month ago. It also didn't slow a bit over time.
People making a cult out of some common industry standards are tiring really. Sure, Apple lead the way with those standards (and destroyed some when it was profitable for them too), but that happened ages ago. You might as well remember some Android phones from 10 years ago and compare them to iPhone 14.
My solution is to never use the vendor ROM. I only get phones with LineageOS support, and then I unlock the bootloader and flash LineageOS ASAP. Stays fast and gets updated longer than the official way. Even the Galaxy S3 still gets pretty good community support.
The incessant Apple (iOS) / Google [and manufacturers] (Android) sniping is truly a sight to behold.
People going out of their way to declare (or at least make clear with varying degrees of intensity) just exactly which feudal overlord they're ready to "bleed for" (i.e., give money, personal data, and free promotion to). People who often act as if they have an appropriately suspicious view of corporations in just about any other interaction, come out boldly declaring that this company or that company is GREAT when it comes to privacy, or consumer choice, or <fill in the blank>.
One of the strongest and most consistent weaknesses of human psychology is the effect "flags" have on otherwise reasonable minds.
> "From my tutor, [I learned] to be neither of the Greens nor the Blues, the Parmularius nor the Scutarius; to bear hard work and have few needs; to do my own work and mind my own affairs; also — have nothing to do with gossip."
That's Marcus Aurelius in the ”Meditations" talking about supporting teams at the chariot races and gladiator fights. It seems very human to get all tribal about something subjective and inconsequential. Ancient Rome had the same fanboyism, just in a different arena.
(I have a phone that just runs Alpine Linux, but I know better than to try and tell anyone about it.)
During a conflict, that mindset requires a large quote of power to be exercised. If you don't belong to a tribe, you will be declared an enemy. Picking no tribe doesn't make you "neutral" It makes you everybody's enemy.
> People going out of their way to declare (or at least make clear with varying degrees of intensity) just exactly which feudal overlord they're ready to "bleed for"
What about people who hate their overlord?
> (I have a phone that just runs Alpine Linux, but I know better than to try and tell anyone about it.)
Said "flags", typically, have the ability to tax, control, imprison and murder you either domestically or send you into a meat grinder in the name of "national security" etc..
So yeah, people tend to fall in line under a flag through a lifetime of indoctrination and threat of financial or physical violence...
There's something more fundamental, though - humans are a "social species". Evolutionarily, we are adapted to requiring (generally) at least something of a group / tribe. Other organisms solve survival (of the species, ultimately) problems differently - incredible and 'cheap' reproductive capacity, strength and versatility enough to be much more solitary as a rule, etc. - those niches are somewhat to rather different.
In any case, at this point in human history especially, I'd argue it's time to consider "the group" to be ALL humans - "by default". There are nuances, and I'm out of time for commenting further right now, but, that's my take on it.
Hopefully, this comment is of some use to you / someone / etc. - hope y'all have a great day!
IME Android phones tend to feel smoother nowadays thanks to 120hz displays becoming widespread even in the midrange. Apple has 120hz on their Pro models but if you drop just one notch down from that $1000+ flagship then you're immediately back at 60hz.
My experience, sadly, has been the opposite. I had an iPhone 13 Pro Max with 120hz, and switched to a S22 Ultra, and although I can see the animations at 120hz, most of the time they feel stuttery.
I always was an Android user until that iPhone, I had it for about a year, and switched back to Android again because I thought I was missing some stuff, but I was wrong, I don't miss a thing of current Android, I think current iOS is simply smoother and more fun to use, and stutter free 95% of the time.
Years ago, back when Androids had even worse animations, I would just speed them up to the maximum (via developer settings), or disable entirely. I got used to it and still do it today. Action feedback is faster, and I don't need my device to be visually awesome anyway.
True of flagships, but even some low-midrange Android devices struggle to animate at even 60hz without frame drops. My late 2022 Android test device tablet that had an MSRP of about $300 when I bought it is like this, while an entry level iPad from 4 years ago running the latest iPadOS has no such problems.
I haven’t actually sat down and compared specs but I’m guessing this happens because Android devices tend to skimp hard on their GPUs at midrange and below.
I’m not switching but this is a good demo approach. And if it gets better over time might seem ironic to early iPhone owners who were told that web apps would suffice… you can accomplish a lot with SPA / PWA.
It also makes me wonder if an Android “container” could run as an app on an iPhone. Maybe sideloading leads to that?
Apple probably won't allow a full, dynamic Android container on their app store because of restrictions regarding loading code from the internet.
From a technical standpoint, I suppose it's possible, but you'd be stuck with a very barebones Android system without all the system daemons for notifications and such. You'll also need to write some kind of EGL-to-Metal driver to get decent graphical performance out of it.
Seeing how far Anbox and Windows' Android implementation have come, I do wonder if it's possible to take an Android app, stick it into an emulator, and bundle that as an .ipa for use on iOS and macOS. It would certainly make porting easier.
I believe it's a stretch to say that Apple has the best privacy experience in the market, unless you believe Apple's marketing pitch on "privacy" verbatim. I think the best privacy on a smart phone today is likely GrapheneOS. Apple has sold it's users on privacy, but in actuality Apple is a for profit platform that has, and will, target it's users data as it needs to delight it's shareholders. For example ATT has issues [0], there's a class action against them [1], and it's hard to take them seriously when there's concern from a number of other angles [2]. A walled garden doesn't imply security and that's how Apple sells "privacy".
Which phone comes with GrapheneOS in the market? For off the shelf phones, Apple is still one of the best option for privacy on the market. Market is being able to buy a phone as is, not install a 3rd party OS.
I disagree completely with this sentiment. We've been told that's how you buy a phone. Do you also buy generic servers or PCs that way? Where you can only run one OS? Apple is the anomaly here. Phones should be able to run different OSes as well. The fact that there's a defense of Apple's not-so-great privacy record with "the market says this is what Apple says a phone is" - is an unfortunate, and successful, marketing campaign by Apple.
Whether or not I can install a different OS on a phone does guarantee an erosion of privacy. What you're arguing is that I should be fine with Apple because you can't install another OS. No thanks. And, yes, people do buy Pixel phones just because they can install a privacy respecting OS. Now, baseband is another problem, but - that's one that Apple has no claims to solve for either.
> Do you also buy generic servers or PCs that way?
Yes, the vast majority of people don't install a custom OS onto their computers, either. So for the average person, this doesn't matter.
> What you're arguing is that I should be fine with Apple because you can't install another OS.
That wasn't my interpretation of the OP. The fact that it's possible, with a lot of effort, to get a privacy-centric device after the fact means nothing for the general public because they are never going to take those steps. So I think it's still reasonable to define "the market" as whatever the devices ship with.
It's great that we have the ability to install privacy-focused operating systems on some Android devices (I have one), but if I were to suggest this to any of my friends, they would laugh me out of the room. There is far less resistance recommending Apple products.
If they're the best the market has to offer, we ought to start demanding better competitors. Apple is a cardholding PRISM member with proven backdoors in their OS. They're also a noted pushover and were fine instating total iCloud surveillance when China asked nicely.
It's a victory if you want it, but utterly pyrric when both of the options on the "market" are useless for privacy.
It could be solved with a political concession, but it could also be solved by developing your OS in public so you're accountable for any "accidental" security mistakes.
I've tried to make the switch to iOS a few times, but it's hardly the best experience on the market, and I always go back to my Galaxy. Not that it's the best experience, since that's purely subjective, but it's just peoples' preferred experience.
I’ve got a Galaxy for work (S20). I got it the year it was released and I can’t believe people choose to use it. It just feels horrible compared to the iPhone. Delays in the keyboard showing, UI lag all over the place, constant updates and notifications for Samsung things I’m not interested in. It was so bad I did a factory reset, thinking I’d screwed something up…but no, still the same. It’s a similar feeling to when Windows XP needed defragged or reinstalled - but at least when you reinstalled XP it was quick again.
I was given an S21 FE for work last year and I tried giving it an honest shot (similarly resetting it in the hopes it would improve) but after a few months I gave up and put the work SIM in my personal iPhone.
Honestly, the post-iOS 7 look looks much, much cheaper. I've always wondered how Johnny Ive got away with icons that look like they were designed in 5 minutes with GIMP. Everything is just a disgusting gradient weirdly cut off by the squircle like a "Download now" scam ad on a shady late 2000s piracy website. Not to speak of the icons that have zero consistency. They don't have the same margins, elements, styles, degree of complexity or anything in common really. It looks like they've been jumbled together from 4 different free svg icon packs. What the hell is that "Health" icon? Have you seen the abomination that is the settings icon?
That's pretty funny, I always associate the weirdly grey iOS look with cheapness. Probably has to do with how all the crappy apps and websites try to copy iOS for some reason. I guess it's all a matter of what you're used to.
This is surprisingly detailed! I didn't expect there to be such nice animations and for there to be an emoji panel in the messaging app.
It's interesting that they're using Safari's “add to Home Screen” feature so they can use fullscreen. I think that might be why that's the only browser which is supported.
That explains why I couldn't get it to work on my Android phone despite spoofing the user agent.
Kind of annoying, I was wondering what Samsungs's phone UI looks like these days but I guess they don't want my money. Samsung's marketing department can be weird like that for no well explained reason.
Edit: found out that Kiwi browser allows access to the Chrome extension store and to the Chrome dev tools so I got it to work despite all of Samsung's best efforts.
Chrome DevTools -> Sources -> trygalaxy.com -> _next/static -> pages -> index_... -> CTRL + F and search window.navigator.standalone -> click on the dash to the right (a blue arrow will appear) and refresh the page
The page will freeze, go to the Console, type window.navigator.standalone = true; and unfreeze the page clicking on the blue arrow.
No amount of these gimmicks will turn folks on to non-iOS devices if their friends/families/social circles are using iPhones. Messages, photo sharing, and the close paring with Apple devices is too much to walk away from.
I was a hardcore proponent for custom ROMs and unlocked bootloaders for the first ~10 years of my mobile phone experience, mostly Nexus and Pixel devices. With OneUI that came with the S10, I've changed my opinion. It's a much better UI and UX than AOSP or Google's default Android experience. I still support the devices that include unlockable bootloaders for long term updates and customization, but OneUI is hard to beat, and Google and Samsung have been working much more closely lately than ever before.
I use my phone as little as I can bear. Barebones GrapheneOS, Fdroid for most things, browser for bank/maps, and four days of battery life. Every proprietary Android ROM is a downsell for me.
It can do emails and VPN just fine, so I'm wondering what the "average user" is missing. Grubhub? Crappy mobile games? Social networks that are making their lives worse? Definitely not YouTube because NewPipe is full-stop better. I'm just surprised that "Maybe I don't need all this toxic crap" is such a niche, extreme position that draws me funny looks and scorn.
Probably not the right place for a suggestion, but since you mentioned NewPipe, I would also suggest checking out LibreTube[0], been my choice of Youtube app after their redesign.
Reminds me a bit of the early 00s (pre-smartphones) when some phone makers (I know Ericsson, can't remember if Nokia, too) had interactable web app versions of their phone UIs, complete with menus, settings, limited programs and surrounded by an image of the phone.
Kind of wish this actually worked as a phone by running Android in the cloud. Would be really useful to have a second phone inside an app for all sorts of things.
Android for Work already lets you isolate some apps in their own little container with separate data, but this would let you keep it safer by never having that data even physically present on the phone.
Actually generalize that: Depending on your exact threat models, this is a great way to have data that can't be lost or stolen just because your device is.
For a large enough app it's probably less data intensive, not to mention much faster, to run the app in a cloud data center where it has effectively unlimited bandwidth, and just stream a video of it over a smaller network connection to the phone.
Creating virtual phones in cloud is probably an easy way to create a lot of them, which allows you to do things like run untrusted apps in complete isolation without access to any of your data or other applications.
They had to release this as a web app because it's against app store rules to release something that emulates springboard or otherwise duplicate existing functionality. I understand app store protections help people a lot but silly rules like that prevent some interesting things like this demo experience.
I just tried this. The UI and UX are hideous. I don't see why any iPhone user would even consider switching to a Samsung phone based on this very underwhelming demo.
Lol. This clearly shows it's made by Samsung/Android manufacturer. They just don't understand why people use iOS.
After scanning the code this happens:
1) Hey! Please copy this page URL and open it in Safari!
I open it in safari
2) Hey! Please add this to your home screen!
sigh...I add it to home screen and open it
3) Now I'm greeted with mandatory 5-10 seconds long UI tutorial
4) Finally I can start using it
This is exactly why I use iOS despite Apple being asshole company. After I scan the code I want end result IMMEDIATELY. No bullshit. I don't wanna press 20 buttons and change browsers, add stuff to homescreen etc.
Next time open it right away in whatever browser I choose to use and then add additional option: "Hey! Wanna get a full screen experience? Add this to your iOS homescreen in Safari and try out. Click here to start!"
This demo does consumers a disservice by downplaying the relationship between Galaxy and Android, I'd argue. If this neat demo is effective, it's not a clear story for a novice end-user (so non-HN readers) that asking for a non-iPhone at the Verizon store /may/ have this experience, but may not. They sort of address what device and experience this would provide, but the text is small, doesn't meet contrast suggestions, and only seems to appear on the desktop, which actually makes me think my statement is more true in that just asking for a Galaxy phone may not match this experience.
And like clockwork the discussion on the subject of Android vs. iOS descends into a slug fest in the style of Whigs vs. Tories, Catholics vs. Protestants, Sunni vs. Shia while never reaching the transcendence of a true emacs vs. vi battle because so many participants seem to take this so seriously, as if their choice of mobile operating system is one central to their being.
Holding this in my hands next to a real galaxy s23 phone, it is amazing that this one on my iPhone 14 pro is SMOOTHER! Probably helps not to have 10000 pointless preloaded apps running the the background!
(I prefer android to iOS but Samsung has never been a good choice. Only pixel was. Too much preloaded shit on Samsung phones that you cannot get rid of, like Bixby and 4-6 social media apps du jour)
I remember when in early days of J2ME enabled mobile phones I was downloading development kits just to test out how UI on one or other mobile phone worked. They usually had very limited OS part, being targeted to development. Later some "simulators" build with Flash appeared on web, allowing to test out some phone features. Seems we came back full circle?
Using Desktop mode by default in Safari on iOS. The page shows a QR code.
After changing to Desktop mode it asks to add it to the home screen. I’ve add it and then launch it and, of course, the web app uses Desktop mode Safari and doesn’t work at all, showing the qr code.
- in Sources, set a breakpoint on the 1st line, refresh the page, when the debugger breaks, type "window.navigator.standalone = true" in the Console, and continue
Since this is -I guess- a project made for fun, it would nice to open source it, so we can learn from it. Maybe then, we can make the opposite project, TryiOS.com
I’m pretty sure this is an ad for Samsung phones, not a project made for fun. It also isn’t as deep as it first appears. This isn’t “Samsung’s Android compiled to wasm”, it’s “a web app that acts like Android until you click on the wrong thing whereupon it stops you from going too deep”. Like, most of the Settings screens aren’t even built out.
Now that everyone can see what is possible with webapps, it is time to drop the centralized app stores and free the world from the shackles of google and apple ...
For this stuttering experience and pages losing context and/or have to reload when navigating back? No thanks.
I know that it’s possible to do (better) but fact is most web developers don’t (or can’t?). Even VS Code, the prime example of how good Web Apps can be always reloads the page of an extension when you switch the tab and go back. Don’t get me started on MS Teams which is just horrible to use
It's restricted to Safari on the iPhone, the language cannot be changed, the demo cannot launch, and I have an iPhone for a reason, I know that I don't like Android and Samsung. The fact that it's broken confirms it. I don't know what they are trying to do with this.
The demo does work, though? Apple has some weird requirements about having to install apps to the home screen (through the share menu, of all places) before they can go full screen, but once you get around that it works fine.
I'm not sure what the point of trying it is if you already know beforehand that you're going to hate it.
Ironically this option does not exist for me. Pretty much sums up Apple's desired usage level of PWA: Almost 0.
Of course it can be caused by a Samsung issue, but this UI is generally so well hidden because they don't want people to use it.
