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I loved Star Wars as a kid. Then the prequels made me jaded that there could ever be anything as good as the originals. The sequels and other content did nothing to dissuade me from this. Then Andor showed up and it's like, holy cow, this is actually good.

Sometimes when the follow-on content is bad... it's because the follow-on content is bad.



Check out Clone Wars and Bad Batch. These brought me back to star wars fandom. Don’t be put off by animation. The stories are excellent and there is lots of character development.


I did watch The Clone Wars (note this is the 2008 TV series, not the 2003 one). The last season (especially the finale) was amazing, up there with Andor for best Star Wars content of all time. But watching the rest of it to get to that point was honestly a slog, and plenty of the shows are gag-worthy or at least blah. It's bad enough I can't recommend it to friends, but I've been trying to think about whether there's a minimal subset of shows I can recommend watching to give enough of the experience that you can appreciate that finale without needing to suffer through the rest of it.

Andor comes with the distinct advantage that you don't have to slog through hours of questionable content to get to the good stuff.


There are lists out there on which clone wars eps are skippable vs not if you just want to be up to date with all of the key storylines and hit the good eps.

Rebels is harder because they had a habit of sneaking key storyline bits into the meh episodes.


Rebels as well, which IMO was the best of all 3.

Clone Wars & Rebels both suffer at first from being a bit too kid-oriented, but both wind up getting pretty serious over time.


I really tried to make it work, but going through the first season was unbearable dread... imagining that there are like 5 more to get to good stuff is IMO not worth it.


Weird because I am split on this. I still game a lot but never got those feelings again that immersed me in the world. Sid Meiers Pirates in my C64 for example. the first CIV or Xcom. I still rack up significant game time but the immersion is less. This I attribute to me not being a kid anymore.

When I was a kid I gobbled up all movies, good, bad, ... Whatever I watched it all. Last decade I haven't watched that much movies anymore. I am in the middle if it is me not being a kid anymore or it is quality.

The difference is that I still put significant time in gaming although it doesn't make me immerse into it like I did as a Kid. Movies I just quit on most of them and watch a couple of good ones.

Maybe it is unfair. A good movie you watch once but even if in a year only 1 good game comes out you can still rack up a big amount of time ;)


I was able to get my kids obsessed with Star Wars before their first Disney trip - watched all of Clone wars, every main movie. Their favorite? Episode 2.


Breath of the Wild is objectively a masterpiece though.


These things are not incompatible in any way:

X is a masterpiece Some person doesn’t enjoy X


I think that's why they used "objectively"


It gets the big things really really right but it is missing human character in a lot of ways compared to Ocarina and MM. Not sure if it was infeasible to do both or if they were on principle trying to let the nature elements do 100% of the work.


Ok... that was my path and since I was not interested I did not know of Andor. Will have to take a look at it.


Andor is the first SW content I have re-watched since Jedi.

[spends a few minutes on a mental inventory]

Well, okay: I watched all the SW eps with my son. (His words after seeing Ep1 were "Daddy, that wasn't a very good movie.")

Still, I rest my case. Andor is the first content that I would actually miss if it went away.


It really is brilliant. The screenwriter is Tony Gilroy (Michael Clayton, Bourne Trilogy).


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> Exploration was not rewarded.

I found exploration very rewarding. I had a lot of fun finding my way on the island where I lost all my items. I remember seeing a Dragon flying through the sky which I thought was delightful. I found certain vistas to be rewarding as well. It's not rewarding in the sense that you're not going to be finding permanent upgrades to your character much, but it's definitely rewarding.

> Weapon durability is literal cancer.

This is a common sentiment but i feel like it's because it challenge's peoples normal expectations, not because it's a bad mechanic. Weapon durability in the game lead to a lot of interesting gameplay scenarios for me, where I lost a weapon and had to look for creative solutions. Altering the environment, using unideal weapons, or finding another way were all options rather than just trying to brute force it with weapons in every situation.

To me the weapon durability was a core mechanic to Breath of the Wild and it wouldn't have been nearly as enjoyable without it. There's too many memorable moments for me where a weapon broke and I had to scramble to think of another solution. I think for people that like hoarding items and collecting better and better weapons it's obviously going to be frustrating when you're forced to be creative in the moment. Elden Ring's creativity comes with how you build out your character, while Breath of the Wild's systems encourage/force you to think of solutions to problems on the fly.

I couldn't disagree more about the soundtrack, though. Breath of the Wild's soundtrack is a masterclass in how to best take advantage of the medium. It blends in with the foley sounds and perfectly encapsulates the mood of the world. It can be at times desolate, but that's the point. It matches the themes of the game itself.


I’ve found many people who complain about weapon durability also complain about exploration being unrewarding.

Seemingly oblivious to how these two systems are deeply related: weapon durability allows the game to give you powerful items in random places without either permanently breaking the game’s difficulty or strongly incentivizing/requiring every player to visit some particular random spot.


I liked BotW. Weapon durability was annoying, but in practice it means you pin map locations of good weapons that respawn every blood moon updating those pins as you find better weapon spots (this step happens because the weapon is carried by some appropriate strength enemy).


I had plenty of fun running around BotW and just exploring the world. I didn't feel the need to be "rewarded" for doing so.

I didn't care about the bosses or dungeons because I was, well, exploring. I didn't care about the story because I was, well, exploring. The mobs were really only there for me to find new and inventive ways to interact with the world.


> It doesn't even feel like a Zelda game.

The original Zelda was open-world.

I will agree that the game world felt sparse and underpopulated, but given the minimalist tone (as evidenced by so many other game elements, like the music or lack of hand-holding) it felt on-brand.

> Weapon durability is literal cancer.

They did this to discourage player min-maxing and to force some variety. I didn't like it either but appreciate the additional layer of dynamism it added to the game.

> Contrast that with Elden Ring

Hardly a good comparison, for one there are several years between the two releases and for two, you are comparing a soulslike with a more 'traditional' open-world game. I for one am sick of roguelike/soulslike mechanics infiltrating everything, this idea that you have to zerg everything over and over again to progress is cancer. And slow ass movement. And bosses that are massive difficulty ramps up from the rest of the level. Ninja Gaiden does 'hardcore' or whatever much better.


The idea that you get Elden Ring as-is without BotW coming years before is also ridiculous.


I don't know where you get that from, the comment clearly alludes to soulslikes and roguelikes


valianteffort's comment was comparing BotW and Elden Ring.


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> Just sounds like a skill issue.

So what if it is? Some people want to play games that allow them to progress a certain amount without establishing skill mastery and there’s nothing objectively wrong with that.


Certainly, but Elden Ring and other FromSoft games are not made for the casual crowd. They have a set difficulty level intentionally so that everyone can share the same feeling of accomplishment.

My main gripe was not that BotW isn't Elden Ring, its that with as much money and resources as Nintendo has, they released a mediocore game. And then they did it again with TotK.


> If you just want to mash the attack button to win, BotW is definitely made for you.

I'd like to see somebody beat Thunderblight Ganon by mashing the attack button.


I felt BOTW was immersible anime, and it was more art than beating baddies/collecting weapons like Elden Ring.


It's insane to call BotW more art than Elden Ring.


This is the take I wanted to hear. BoTW was actually all hype, empty space, and busywork. Now they want to make ZeldaCraft of the Wild. I'm not interested.

The height of BoTW was the 4 tiny animal fortresses. And even they felt kinda shallow.




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