This is so skewed towards the US. Eg here in Europe people go to their GP much more often because those visits are free, and hard data says we live longer than in the the US. So the problem isn't "doctors" or "medicine", the problem is the US medical system.
Please. I've been through medical systems in several European countries, and the GP system is frustratingly bad. GPs will at best prescribe you some medication, but will otherwise act as entitled gatekeepers to the rest of the system. Unless you're bleeding on their table, they'll do their best to avoid sending you to a specialist. They'll engage in the same charlatanism that GP is talking about.
Healthcare in Europe is not free. You're taxed for it quite highly.
Calling this system "healthcare" is too generous. It only exists to keep people from complaining, and healthy enough so they can be productive enough to be taxed. There is no care.
What? I have never seen these alleged "entitled gatekeepers". I have been passed to specialists with no issue. The public sector healthcare is excellent and the same medical standard as is received in the private sector.
Let's talk about that price. So how does healthcare work out for you in the US system if you cannot pay for insurance? In a public sector system you still get healthcare just the same if your income is zero. The total tax cost for middle (or even higher) earners in European countries is often less than equivalent private insurance premiums paid in the US. In private sector systems you still ending up paying out of pocket even when you are "covered" with those deductibles. So your overall cost is even higher. Don't forget in the US you still pay taxes for healthcare for schemes like Medicare so don't forget to add that on when doing comparisons. What does the typical private insurance policy say about pre-existing conditions and congenital disorders? You're fully covered in public sector healthcare. What if you suffer from an expensive illness? You may find your insurance premiums increase. Your taxes don't increase in public sector healthcare regardless of what illness you have.
It's just americabrain. You can hardly blame them as this is the only system they know and were socialized in. I've talked to otherwise intelligent and well adjusted people who came up with the most spectacular mental gymnastics defending the US health system and coming up with the weirdest reason why public health care in the developed world isn't actually better (you have to pay taxes!!:(), it's absolutely mindboggling and I just laugh at them now. It really sucks for the families who have their lived destroyed due to unnecessary and massive medical bills.
The irony of the comment you’re responding to is that Americans also pay a lot for healthcare in taxes and we don’t even get decent healthcare in return.
> What? I have never seen these alleged "entitled gatekeepers". I have been passed to specialists with no issue. The public sector healthcare is excellent and the same medical standard as is received in the private sector.
I saw it and "suffered" it in the UK. GP visits are terrible there: You only had 15 minutes and GPs seem to always be in a hurry. I've always had IBS and had to go through several GP appointments until they refereed me to a gastroenterologist. Once I was referred, it was pure joy and incredibly good, and I din't pay A DIME.
I also experienced it in Germany. Although it was a bit better than in the UK. My GP in Germany referred me to a specialist Gastro pretty quickly.
I am talking coming from Mexico and the Mexican system. Here we are very used to two systems: A nefarious public one which is just terrible. And a private one which is quite good and at great price. Also, for private care, you can go directly to specialists.
> GP visits are terrible there: You only had 15 minutes and GPs seem to always be in a hurry.
This is how standard care in the US is, even with good insurance. I've always assumed a doctor's time is so valuable it makes sense to carve it into ever smaller pieces.
What we have in much of Europe is mostly a dream compared to clusterfuck that US healthcare is. US has by far the highest costs globally, unavoidable even if insured. People here never think 'should I go to doctor, can I afford treatment'. Thats 3rd world country stuff.
Yes we pay for it, much less than US, but its not part of our net salary so nobody actually cares, this topic is simply not discussed by commin folks, and you can easily see how much stress it causes even to wealthy US folks.
We treat people in same way regardless of their origin, wealth, status, even homeless get top notch care if they dont run away from it.
Something in your words tell me you are not a standard patient.
I can get a telephone consultation with a GP within 24 hours; if I need to see my own designated GP, I can get a face appointment within a week, usually. If consultants are appropriate, I'm referred to a consultant.
There are some specialisms where it's hard to get a referral; podiatry is an example. As far as I can tell, NHS podiatry is mainly reserved for people with diabetes. I had to hire a private podiatrist, £50 per session, 6 sessions. I gather there are long queues for mental treatment (although GPs enthusiatically diagnose depression, and hand out antidepressants like jellybeans).
I don't like taking antibiotics; I don't want to nuke my gut biome, if I can avoid it. I can't remember the last time I was prescribed antibiotics prophylactically.
There's been a wave of strikes in the NHS since Christmas; I've only used the surgery recently to renew prescriptions over the phone, and I was able to get through with a 5-minute wait. I haven't had a proper appointment for 2 years.
They are gatekeepers. That is literally their job. Doctors are a scarce resource that you're not paying for. You think all the taxes you pay in a lifetime is enough to cover even a week in a ICU?
> GPs will at best prescribe you some medication, but will otherwise act as entitled gatekeepers to the rest of the system
I feel that's more on the UK/Irish medical system
On the continent specialists will happily take you without a referral, though usually private only (which to be honest, the "GP as gatekeeper" method is stupid - thanks I know which doctor to go for a skin disease, I'm not from the sticks)
> I feel that's more on the UK/Irish medical system
I've had no issues getting a referral in the UK system, though I appreciate some people do struggle. Hell, I've had to actively turn down the offer of a referral when I felt like the problem would be better dealt with in primary care.
You are often also charged fees at the doctors office or even emergency care.
And places like Sweden have private health insurance so you domt have to stay in the “free” broken system with years of waiting before getting to a specialist.
I always cringe when nordics make fun of the US healthcare system.
Ours is just as expensive and horribly broken.
You may not get a 20k dollar bill for immediate care.
You are instead set on a 5-14 year (not a typo ) waiting list.
Sweden is a capitalist country with socialist taxes.
