Teaching is not nearly as hard as you lay it out to be.
The problem is teaching is los pay and low status in most places, and as such mostly attracts people who are terrible teachers.
Our kids are in private school now because our public school is a dumpster fire of bad teachers and admins. The private school teachers don’t get paid a lot but they are valued and highly motivated to actually reach kids. The difference is astounding.
And the private school teachers aren’t doing anything exotic or difficult. They are teaching just like kids were taught decades ago. Heck, my fifth grader is learning Latin.
Your comment is self-contradictory. You say the problem is low teacher pay and status, but then point out the private school teachers aren't highly paid, but are motivated.
If I were to speculate, I suspect the differences are:
1. Modestly higher pay in the private school, attracting better teachers
2. More selective student body in the private school, making the school environment more conducive to learning for average and above-average students, and more attractive to teachers
3. No public-sector union in the private school, leading to more accountability for teachers
The second point is important. Private schools exclude all the kids whose parents lack the motivation, time, or resources to place their child in an exclusive institution. They exclude the children who didn't learn the behavioral skills to conform to the expectations of a private school. They exclude many children with disabilities even if they can't explicitly discriminate. Meanwhile, public schools are required to include children with disabilities (often involving disruptive behavior) in class with other students to the extent practical.
Public schools are charged with upholding the social contract that all children are entitled to a Free Appropriate Public Education regardless of their social status, wealth, disability, or the financial or emotional capacity of their parents. It's a heavy burden to carry, but it's one that we as a society have decided is worth the cost. Your children's private school doesn't carry that burden.
My post wasn’t contradictory, because you missed the part about status.
Our private school teachers are treasured, and are honored to be part of the long tradition of this particular school.
My children are also the same children they were in public school, but they are learning more now because they have better teachers. The knowledge gap of them transitioning from public to private school was considerable.
Intrinsic motivation is a factor, I agree with that. But it is more than that. Public schools (as a rule) are not getting our best and brightest, they’re more getting those who are settling for it for their job.
* Editing to add I agree on lack of unions in private schools. Our public school teachers in NJ at least have no real accountability at all.
I guess I just don't think you've made a good case for _why_ the private school teachers are better than the public school teachers. I don't think it's intrinsic motivation. Do you really think status is a sufficient explanation? Why aren't public schools getting our best and brightest?
It's not that I think I have bullet proof answers to these questions, but I feel like you're not acknowledging that these are important questions to answer if we're to understand why your children are getting a better education in private schools.
My theory is that it largely has to do with teachers prefering to teach the subset of children who get into private schools. As a rule, private school kids are better behaved and less difficult to work with. It's important to note that I'm not saying public school children deserve an inferior education. Their lack of behavioral and emotional skills is not their fault. In fact, those are skills that should be taught in school.
> Teaching is not nearly as hard as you lay it out to be.
> Our kids are in private school now because our public school is a dumpster fire of bad teachers and admins. The private school teachers don’t get paid a lot but they are valued and highly motivated to actually reach kids. The difference is astounding.
This is exactly what I'm talking about. You have N=1 child, and you extrapolate everything from that one child, especially how to teach all children. Your fifth grader is in fifth grader for a single year, and so your experience on fifth graders is limited to that. The teacher teaches 20-30+ new fifth graders every year, for decades, and has a wide range of experience.
I'm sure your fifth grader is very smart and talented. To be learning Latin in 5th grade, they must be. And so what has happened to their old classroom at public school? That classroom is now absent one of the brightest, most engaged members of that community. I'm not saying you were wrong to change schools, that was a good move for you. But for the teacher, you made their job actually harder. And think about what happens when all the top students sort themselves into the top private schools. Where does that leave the public classroom?
This is why your experience was night and day. Take all the top students and put them in a room together, and the learning happens almost automatically. It's like magic. Take all the bottom performers and put them in a room together, and it's like pulling teeth. It's torture.
So yeah, in some sense you're right. Teaching people who want to learn isn't all that hard. It's actually a lot of fun! But that's not all there is to teaching, and so I would implore you to maybe adjust your perspective to account for this.
My kids aren’t top students at all. They both have learning disabilities. My son is highly sports oriented, my daughter is very musical. They both have trouble with traditional subjects.
They both got “B”s in public school, despite their standardized tests showing them in the 15-20th percentile.
They both struggled with their knowledge deficit transitioning into the private school.
They are doing very well now. Not straight A’s, but they are learning what they need to learn and flourishing as people.
I have seen this repeated for many other families. A lot of public schools are simply awful.
"B" students are in fact top students. That you think they aren't is one of the things I've been pushing back on in my career.
I have several learning disabilities including dyslexia and ADHD and was also a top student, so those aren't exactly determinative. Many of my top students are neurodivergent. I get a dozen letters every semester from my top students regarding their learning disabilities.
Excelling in sports and music is also indicative of highly talented students with vast aptitude. Your kids are actually probably far above average, but you can't see that, because your N=2.
I’m sorry, are you indicating you know my kids better than I do?
The kids got “B”s because everyone who showed up got Bs. It was social promotion.
This became painfully obvious when the first marking period scores in many classes was F and D in the private school. And was backed up by equally bad standardized testing scores.
No, I don't presume to know your children. But I am more qualified than you to compare them to other children, because that's part of my job (unless it's your job too, I dunno). Based on what you've told me, and that's all I have to go off of, your kids are above average. It's kind of wild to me that you're on here arguing with me that they're not.
Kids who get A's, B's (even some C's); and do sports or music are well on their way to successful futures. The kids getting Fs and Ds who aren't involved in any music or sports are the ones who won't be getting spots at top colleges. That's not to say they can't have successful futures nonetheless.
Maybe so we're all on the same page, you can articulate what the profile of a "top student" looks like to you.
You need a reality check, dude. The fact that you think you can judge people’s children better than their parents based on a few sentences on HN lays bare your poor assumptions.
I said I can judge your kids better relative to other kids because I have extensive experience doing it. If you think you can do that better without any experience actually evaluating kids, then I think it's you who needs the reality check. It's such hubris to think you can do the job of an experienced professional better without any experience or training whatsoever, and that's the whole problem with busybody parents.
The few sentences you provided are highly correlated with very successful students. Learning Latin in 5th grade is not something 90% of children do. Immediately your kid stands apart for having done that. Same with sports and music. Combine that with good grades, and that's the profile of a top student. What more do you want? Again, what's your conception of a top student, and how do your kids not qualify? Is it because they're not getting straight A's?
Still so wild to me that you, as a father, are arguing post after post to me, a dog on the internet, that your kids are below average. I mean, regardless of what reality I live in, what's up with that? Who are you really trying to convince here?
That's not how percentiles work. (The upthread 15-20 was %ile not %.)
I mean, I can imagine a test where the 15th-20th %ile range happened to be a score of 80-85%, but that would be coincidence or design of the specific test, not a natural equivalence.
I figure this was the same mistake as the first other response, I made the same one initially when reading that comment and thought they were saying "B" was lower than it should have been, not higher than it should have been. How "percentile" actually works isn't something I've given any thought in like a decade or more, my first read was "top 15-20%" before going back and remembering it's actually more like "bottom 15-20%" (or more precisely something like "better than 15-20% of other takers").
The problem is teaching is los pay and low status in most places, and as such mostly attracts people who are terrible teachers.
Our kids are in private school now because our public school is a dumpster fire of bad teachers and admins. The private school teachers don’t get paid a lot but they are valued and highly motivated to actually reach kids. The difference is astounding.
And the private school teachers aren’t doing anything exotic or difficult. They are teaching just like kids were taught decades ago. Heck, my fifth grader is learning Latin.