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HN website is/was down. I'm curious why? (hund.io)
163 points by karmakaze on Dec 12, 2023 | hide | past | favorite | 180 comments


Hacker News Status @HNStatus on Twitter/X [0]:

    Networking issues at our hosting provider. Sorry! Hoping to be back up soon
[0] https://twitter.com/HNStatus/status/1734502529134989649


HNStatus on Mastodon when? :-)


Hopefully not before it's on Farcaster, which actually has sufficient decentralization without sacrificing a global name registry ;)


The Fediverse has a global name registry. Your instance-name is part of that.

(That is, names are globally unique. They may not always be findable, but for a sufficiently federated profile, searching from a sufficiently federated instance, that shouldn't be a hurdle. And I strongly suspect third-party directories will emerge.)


The problem (other than disastrous security concerns stemming from server admins being able to read everyone's DMs) with Mastadon and similar is that once you move to another instance, your username changes.

With Farcaster, user names are both decentralized and global.


Gotchya.

Having migrated a few times (both before and after official support for this existed), I'm aware of the Fediverse's non-portable namespace issues, and some way of resolving that would be useful.


The idea of not having your identity tied to one specific instance is very appealing.

Is there some way to create an account on desktop or web? Or at least view content without an account? It seems to only push some smartphone app, which is a big step down from Mastodon if that's the only option.


It’s a protocol and isn’t tied to any one implementation. There are a lot frontends for it and anyone can make another.


I had a look through frontends. Plenty let you sign in/connect some existing account, but I saw none that offered the ability to create an account. The Farcaster page on clients[0] seemingly reflects this by saying you use that app to create an account and then use an alternate frontend "once you've created an account". Given the 2.0 star average due to reviews claiming that the app requires a $12 payment then often doesn't work[1], I'd be hesitant to use it even if it was available on desktop/web or compatible with my phone.

If there's something I'm missing and there is somewhere to create an account, would you be able to link me in the right direction?

[0]: https://www.farcaster.xyz/apps

[1]: https://i.imgur.com/8PC1Jit.png


I use the Warpcast client and never paid anything for it. Thus far, the app has just "worked".


Glad someone shared this link as that update is impossible to come across without a Twitter account


You can browse the same content on Nitter without a Twitter account: https://nitter.net/HNStatus


While I'm glad that I can read what someone is talking about on X/Twitter without giving away my privacy, I'd much rather see a trend of moving off of the platform altogether (or at least posting to multiple platforms to make the transition off of X more mainstream palatable)


I'd rather be able to see the updates on X. Unless you count chat apps like LINE, it's the only social network I really use.


What hosting provider do they use?



M3


I wonder if @dang is going to refund my HN+ subscription for this month because of the outage?


As a compensation you'll get additional 10% added to your usual 99,6% uptime SLA next month, up to a total of 109,6%!


Which doesn't sound like much, but those hours when HN+ is 200% up are absolutely magical.


Especially since the lack of new content after submitters strike…


There is a subscription? Does it filter out the ads?


There is a B2B subscription as well, it rate limits the site during business hours.


It removes the ads but not the paid promoted posts. Though they look exactly the same as organic ones in the interface so you'll never know.


It gives you access to original content (e.g. spam that has been removed) and you'll see posts 5 minutes before everyone else.


I've got the 'premium plus' subscription tier and I can see new posts before they're posted.


Yeah the predictive posting is great. I get the obituaries a day before people have even died! Really handy to set up my schedule for the week.


I have the "Platinum Preferred Premium Plus" tier and I can see posts that never even get posted!


Only the prerolls.


I got mine already?


A closing parenthesis was missing in its Lisp source code. Took 3 hours and 9 engineers to find where


I know this is a joke, but I remember when I was learning LISP I was SOO WORRIED about that and couldn't possibly fathom how I was going to actually be productive with it.

I don't remember now, but it wasn't AT ALL the big issue that I initially anticipated. I just mention it, because your comment made me realize that I also don't understand WHY it wasn't an issue!


Syntax highlighting and indenting probably makes matching parentheses a non-issue.


If only those were universally available. And well implemented.


In which widely used language do you not have to indent, or match parentheses, brackets and braces?

An editor that cannot match parentheses, brackets and braces, or auto-indent in at least a rudimentary way is not very usable for working in anything.


There are lisp coders who don't use emacs? or vim?


> it wasn't AT ALL the big issue that I initially anticipated

LMK if you figure out why! Because whenever I'm refactoring in a bracket-heavy language, it's almost guaranteed that, every so often, the parser starts throwing syntax errors, and I need to stare at something like `)]})})` for a while.

What tooling am I missing that can prevent this from happening? I use auto-formatters and rainbow bracket colorizers whenever possible, and they're great! But in no way prevent this from happening.


Couldn’t they just add one at the end?


It opens the gates of hell and corruption! Since every parenthesis has its own & unique match, you need to find the one missing its other half, and add the correct one to the correct place.

Every parenthesis in Lisp world is unique like a snowflake, and they come in pairs.


> every parenthesis has its own & unique match

I think you just discovered parenthesis entanglement theory :)


Parenthetically, parenthetical entanglement is consistent with duality, so at least our theories are consistent at a grand scale and do not necessitate any unified field theory (at this point).


No rainbowbrackets in their IDE I take it?


They are probably using VT320s from some remote/hidden locations. I don't expect a state of the art gigabit satellite connection on a remote island.

Unless their foundation air-dropped them a couple of Starlink units alongside their seasonal food and goods supply run.


:-) or one LLM


Funny. They would never touch the HN codebase


It’s been up so long I thought it was my internet.


I use hacker news as my "is my Internet working" test - it's fast and always up (kudos)

So yes, I also thought my Internet was broken :-)


I restarted my phone because I thought my network was down blindly believing HN can never be down. Then I opened another website and realised this is one of those times that the website was actually down.


Same but even after seeing another site was working I still wondered if it was my Pi Hole / DNS cache acting up or something.


It was down for a while last week too...


Personally I like https://dnscheck.tools, it checks a few other things as well like DNSSEC and IPV6

For a very simple site, https://captive.apple.com works too


Back in the day (90:ies) a colleague at the ISP I was working at (small time dial up business) told me that the one site on the Internet you could count on always being up was playboy.com. Therefore, it was our standard "check if Internet is working" site. In the event that it was a DNS issue, it was also best to memorize its IP.

For some reason, knowing the IP number of playboy.com by heart was not a skill I bragged about a lot :P

These days it's 1.1. Easier both to remember and type than anything else.


I used to have a smartphone plan that throttled to 100kbps after I used my data. At that point, for the rest of the month I would usually live with it because HN and google maps still worked even when every other site wouldn't load.


You should rethink that. HN is slow and/or down all the time.

May I suggest https://lite.cnn.com/


I prefer my own, https://hackerer.news (relies on CloudFlare CDN and Netlify)


https://perdu.com is a good move too


It was our internet that broke.


You can borrow ours next time if you want


It’s not fast and always up. It’s down more than all other websites in my top 10.


I thought that a stupid comment i made got so downvoted that the backend broke


Same here. It coincided with some MS Teams breakage at work, so I honestly thought the Internet is down - I've rebooted the work computer and asked my wife to check if the Internet is working for her before I realized it's just HN.


haha same. turned off VPN, tried again, just to check. Reset router too. Couldn't be HN, must be me and mine


Same, before my daily standup I usually quickly hop on HN, was fully convinced my net was down.


Is Hacker News _the only_ site you visit? :)


No, but since Reddit gimped Apollo, it’s up there, higher than I like.


Same here. HN + a few RSS feeds now. Reddit without Infinity is no Reddit for me.


Yeah, my phone even said that it couldn't connect "because your iPhone is not connected to the internet", despite being connected just fine. I had to run a globalping to actually convince myself that it was even possible.


Glad this wasn’t just me. I reset my router before I realised


I assumed there was more OpenAI drama


same, bro. same. always accessing hn from office. i thought it guys are sick and tired of my posts.


After some checking, it seems to be an issue with the free Heroku instance they are running.


Underrated comment of the week.

Amazing what they squeeze out of a single process architecture.


It could be impressive, but the website frequently goes down when big news hit.

I think they could move it to a more powerful machine and the remaining issues would be fixed. It wouldn't be as big of a flex as running on an ancient Intel CPU though.

Edit: I got "We're having some trouble serving your request. Sorry!" while trying to send this comment :)


Looking at that status page, unless it's completely wrong, there's outages multiple times every month. They really could just upgrade their instance and get more mileage out of it and it wouldn't require any "refactoring". Site's mostly fine as is


Amazing... yes, but there are also obvious drawbacks. Take a look at any big thread that has manual and clunky pagination on it, or the site being down because a single provider or disk crapped out. Totally acceptable and fine things depending on the scale of what you're trying to achieve, and especially so for a free website... but it can definitely be better (no, I'm not talking about microservices in Kubernetes on the Edge in the Cloud powered by AI).


Best site on the net and a bunch of google and apple techs want to 'fix' it.


What's the reason for the single process arch, just don't have time/money to scale up?


Would like to know their compute and bandwidth usage.

The front page is ~7 kilobytes on reload, and ~20 on first load - such a good example of "less is more".


Phew, this was almost a ridiculously productive day.


Honestly, yes!


First thing I thought was "well there must have been some huge news and HN has collapsed".


"BREAKING: In a surprise move, the OpenAI board have ... {$drama}"

:)


... replaced the entire board with HN comments. From now on, all decisions will be made by ChatGPT5, posted on a regular "Who wants to lead OpenAI?" thread, and upvotes will decide which ones are implemented.


You're recycling the playbook of one of those crypto schemes. That's ancient history. Modernity asks for several LLM (Mistral, Llama 2, ChatGPT5) deciding which output is best and following that course. Typing parrots all the way down.


... and upvotes will be weighed and taken into account in the auto summarisation and sentiment analysis?


can't imagine all the mayhem that would bring to site. poor dang would see his workload x100


"Elon Musk has acquired Y Combinator and swiftly fired dang and renamed it X Combinator."


"Dang was later replaced by grok ai, and now X Combinator is finally 'free speech'" /s


The huge news is that HN was down


There is an anti-procrastination setting in your account settings


Maybe an overzealous anti-procrastination AI a la https://xkcd.com/416/


  > Why?
It wasn't written in rust.


HN is actually one of the only (or the only?) websites that is written in an entirely new programming language.

Just wanted to mention that.


Bel?


Arc, iirc.



Are you doing the actual arc maintenance of HN? From your comment in that thread it seems like you do that + the moderation (how you have the time, I have no idea).

Do you come from a background of Lisps? I just learned my first lisp (Clojure) this past year.


Yes, I work on the code when I have time, and you are right—there is never enough of it.

My original background in programming wasn't in Lisp, but when I read pg's essays about Lisp, I decided to learn it, and since then I...switched over.


Interesting. I've wanted to learn a Lisp since reading his essays almost 15 years ago, but never had a chance until this year.

Unfortunately it wasn't the best circumstances to learn Clojure - I was taking ownership of a codebase that had lost all its developers, and was fairly complicated. I wonder whether I should try to learn Arc for fun sometime.


I think Arc is fun! But the community is small and only intermittently active (to put it mildly): http://arclanguage.org/forum.

If I were you I'd probably take up Racket or Common Lisp, depending on your tastes. If you prefer PLT style hacking, I'd go with Racket and if you prefer more systems style hacking, I'd go with SBCL.

Also, if you like Emacs, I'd definitely go with Slime + SBCL. There is also a lot of newer-generation Emacs/SBCL tooling that I haven't gotten around to yet.

Arc is closer semantically to Common Lisp than it is to Racket - for example the way Arc uses T and NIL is very CL, not Scheme. Personally I find Arc more usable than CL for a bunch of reasons, such as (1) hashtables are far easier, and (2) it's a Lisp-1 rather than a Lisp-2.


Erlang you mean?


A common typo. The keys are like right next to each other.

Which I suppose is a reference to another website that is down. Bash.org still hasn't resurfaced :(


Also, it's not serverless. /s


It was for a little bit though. That is why this thread is here!


That they didn't start original development in Rust is beyond me /s


Somebody is going to do a rewrite in Rust and call it “simply”


Well, this made me realize that downforeveryoneorjustme.com is useless, because HN was down from multiple servers, but dfeojm happily claimed it was up, only later changed it to down, not sure when, but at least 10 minutes after it started.


URL is way too long. https://isup.me/


Or https://downfor.io for the short link

Though, for pure power, I prefer https://jsdelivr.com/globalping to do an HTTP ping, easily check from like 100 different locations worldwide live. It also does a great job at helping you know if it's just slow in your area or worldwide or whatever.


12:01 AM on the 12th of the 12th. Coincidences are cool


Illuminati confirmed


That's the nicest status page I ever seen, good job whoever built this


I use HackerNews to check if my internet is OK. I'm sure even with this incident it has better uptime than Github, Gitlab and quite a few other services from major cloud providers / companies.


I keep seeing these comments, but in my experience hacker news has minor outages several times per year. That’s not counting massive slowdowns from big stories.


`ping 1.1` is so much faster check these days...


Thanks, I never knew this resolves. I guess similar to IPv6 :: ?


HN is a modern scalable multi-AZ, multi-region, multi-cloud Kubernetes edge worker Docker serverless lambda IoT paradigm SPA web 2.0 blockchain AI architecture (OCI) and certainly doesn't get those kind of reliability numbers from being a carefully watched server under dang's desk.

https://twitter.com/danieldibswe/status/1169485819993841664

Kubernetes. We've come so far since the 90's.


Poe's law strikes again.

HN, StackOverflow, Hey.com/Basecamp, Lichess and probably many others that I'm not remembering or aren't famous run mostly or exclusively on real iron.

We don't need buzzword bingo to build reliable, internet-scalable systems, especially when a hiccup occurs so rarely that it's news when it does happen.


It just gone back up now for me. I don't even know how OP or other users here even managed to create replies.


I've noticed this happening more frequently. It really ramped up about a month ago with the whole Sam Altman leaving Open AI situation and the articles that spawned. I wonder - is HN going to upgrade its infrastructure because of these outages?


I am curious how this event could create curiosity in some people.. this is like the last thing imaginable to be interesting


HN is down for me.


down for me too


Hello? Can anybody hear me?!


No.


lol


Code was compiling


I'd like to request HN also post its status messages to the Fediverse given Birdsite's increasingly unstable and untenable status and leadership.


Oh well, I cant start the day now.


Going back to sleep then?


Thanks to hckrnews.com site for such times. You can at least read the top articles directly.


There's also hazumi.news that I made which doesn't go down when HN goes down, here's this post on there: https://www.hazumi.news/posts/38610912


In other news, the biggest Ukrainian mobile operator Kyivstar is down due to a hacker attack. Coincidence?


Monobank was under attack as well: https://t.me/s/OGoMono/1456


£20 says it was DNS


DNS was actually the first alert we received, but alas was not the cause.


It's all working for me, but everything's super super slow. Usually opening pages in private mode/not-logged-in is fast, but not this time.

It almost seems like DDoS on CDN or something like that.


Initially, it seemed like a DoS to us too, but it was not. This was confirmed by upstream provider metrics. No major traffic spikes. It was a combination of non-malicious things. More info later, some of us need sleep.


super super slow too, probably DDoS


honestly, I thought it was blocked in my country—glad that wasn't the case


I won't be surprised if that happened in my country's internet. My country one day blocked Reddit out of nowhere, without clear reason, almost a decade ago. It's still not clear why, to this day.


Probably the huge amounts of porn and prostitution that reddit hosts.


[flagged]


The level of intelligence of the whole world has been on a boat ramp for few years.


I wouldn't be using Hackernews if it wasn't for the community and moderation.

This website is terribly bad: - UX/UI is terrible and not user friendly - Infrastructure and the code is like COBOL from the 80s - No notifications when someone replies to your comment - Profile section is non-existent - API is just as bad as the website

I could go on with the list, but you get the idea... for a website which receives millions of visitors, it's a shame that it's so bad.


I think many of the things you identify as flaws are actually strengths of this site.

The minimalist text-only gui IS very usable for discussion, and forces that the focus is on the discussion.

I think for instance adding images to posts or comments would make the site worse, as images serve to attract and focus attention away from discussion. But the discussion here is the point!

The minimal profile sections are also a feature. This account is not your digital homepage. It is a place people go for discussion. A bigger focus on your profile would be a step towards use of the site as brand-building which favors attention-whoring over quality discussion.

Again, the focus is on reducing frictions to people to contribute to quality discussion, and avoiding dynamics that might supplant this.


Some features would still be nice, like to know when someone has responded to you.


Most of the poor discussions I see on here are when one user tries to steamroll a thread, replying to most every single comment, doubling down on their own points of the discussion. It turns into a personal argument, not a discussion by the community.

So I think a lack of notifications is a great feature. It lets us say our piece and move on, and let the community discussion fall where it will.


Totally agree with this. I thought it was weird when I first joined, but over the years, I've grown to appreciate the lack of it.

Keeping track of your points is a decent indicator that activity has happened though. I just remember roughly where it was when I left, and then I know whether I should check /threads or not.


I think the intent is to discourage back and forth chatter which is a significant way that a flame war develops.

There are third party services though http://www.hnreplies.com/


Or just moving the collapse button next to the vote buttons, so collapsing multiple comment branches becomes easier. Would not change anything the GP mentioned and would probably be super easy to implement.


Easy enough to do it yourself via userstyle (for Stylus) or userscript (for TamperMonkey)? :).

I'm currently using both - userstyle for DIY dark mode, userscript on mobile for font size adjustment (no Stylus available on Firefox for Android yet). Plus uBlock Origin configured to nuke the karma counter.


True.

And though I don't have a relocated collapse control, there are modified light/dark mode HN styles linked in my HN profile, for those interested in either using those directly or as a starting point for your own restyle.


I could and probably will, but solving this on the server-side would be a huge time-saver for millions of users.

Is there a RES-style browser addon for HN with some of these little quality of life improvements?


Then again, it's hacker news. If the audience of this site won't individually hack the UX to match their preferences, who will?


With that logic, why not just provide an API. Everybody just hack together their own client. Being a hacker doesn't mean you never get to benefit from prior work, or never work together on something, or never share your work.

I get the appeal of providing a minimal service like HN, but unless I'm missing something, my proposed change is an absolute no-brainer considering it's effort-reward ratio.


<https://github.com/HackerNews/API>

Linked under "API" at the bottom of the page you're reading now.


Emphasis was on "just", as in: no web client.


That seems an unreasonable expectation.

There are and were message- and discussion-oriented protocols, most notably Usenet, of which you may be aware there were some persistent issues:

<https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36194941>

<https://web.archive.org/web/20220321105208/https://old.reddi...>

The thought's occurred to me that among the conspicuous omissions from the HTML spec is of a threaded discussion (or more specifically, messages within a threaded context) as a first-order object, permitting arbitrary structuring of that content at the volition of the reader.


Though on reflection: if you're really interested in a technical discussion site, the speedbump of needing to code (or at least install) your own client might make for an interesting form of gating.

To that extent, your suggestion's somewhat growing on me.


Or search:

<https://duckduckgo.com/?t=ftsa&q=alternative+hacker+news+fro...>

"Alternative hacker news front ends".


No No … hell no

This is one of the features of HN that I appreciate most. The lack of notification means that you don't (typically) get a ton of back and forth sniping arguments like you do on sites like reddit.

I find this makes people put more effort into their first comment and keeps the arguments lower.


You can actually implement that yourself, or use what someone else did:

http://www.hnreplies.com/


The UX and the lack of notifications are part of the reason I really like it!


2nd that. no need of tricks for "user retention", the content is so good that we keep coming by our own.


You get the list of trending articles, you can go read the article itself, you can look at the discussions, and you can also get a comment box to add to those discussions. Oh, and you can up- and downvote articles and comments.

What else do you really need, honestly? It's like reddit, only with actually readable comment threads.


Personally, I'd like some more formatting options:

1. inline code formatting, e.g. Markdown's `place code here` with backticks)

2. direct links, or some sort of footnotes system. I prefer to thoroughly source posts, especially when it's either rare/obscure knowledge or when it's an opinion/viewpoint that goes against the "hive mind" or however else you want to call the "mass opinion" on here - it's easier and more productive to debate on sourced facts than on unsubstantiated claims.

3. an actual quote indicator, just as Reddit does with lines that begin with > - it would be a waaay better way to follow visually in lengthy posts

4. actually working ordered and unordered lists. Markdown's syntax is bad, but anything is an improvement over nothing.


One of the reasons I learned a lot of css and js was actually inspired by me writing userscript to modify HN webpage to be like I want. That might count as a plus for me. The HN page source makes it easy to customize.

And lack of notifications is a good feature. It does help in many cases where you would go into very heated or not very useful discussions.


My learning tool was Google+ back in the day. I'd already been hacking up various websites' CSS for a while, but that instance was ... special...

Though not notifications, I've included code to annotate YC startup job listings, just so I could clearly distinguish them from regular posts.

I took to increasingly muting the notification such that it now reads:

  /* HN startup job ads */
  
  html[op="news"] .athing td:nth-of-type(2):not(.votelinks) {
      background: #eee;
  }
  
  html[op="news"] .athing td:nth-of-type(2):not(.votelinks):before {
      content: "YC";
      position: relative;
      left: 0.8em;
      top: 0;
      color: #000;
      font-size: 0.6em;
  } 
That's a very faint grey highlight to the text. Anything more is like sand in my eyeballs, and this really does stand out clearly for me.


If only they could raise a seed round and hire a decent team to add some animation on the frontpage and set it up on kubernetes then blog about their unique experience...


I'm very glad that people who think like this aren't running this site


> UX/UI is terrible and not user friendly

The Hacker News UX/UI is one of the best among the websites I regularly visit!


Those are all features.


Each of the “downsides” you listed is consistent with the HN’s goals.


And further, searching for comments on each of these by HN's mods (dang, sctb, and pg) will turn up rationales against them, for those curious.

E.g.: <https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&qu...>


I mean, Reddit may suit your needs? I find HN pretty perfect for my needs. The simplicity keeps me coming back. I find all the things you mention to be benefits, personally.


Reddit is lacking the most important part: the community and the moderation.


I completely agree. I was just saying for the person I replied to that maybe Reddit was more their thing, which is fine. I still use Reddit for some things. It can be a really great resource at times. But I much prefer to spend my time on HN, overall.

And yes, the community and moderation here are a literal breath of fresh air compared to most of Reddit.


reddit got so big its community was equivalent being out in public. it got so big on the inside that it turned into the outside


re: replies, check out hnreplies.com (no affiliation), it works quite well.


lmao i always imagine dang laughing on us because we mispress buttons and links with our fat fingers haha




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