Suicides do not just happen due to being in extreme, incurable pain. People commit suicides due to emotions which seem powerful immediately(failure in love life, academics, career etc.) but would not seem as such a big deal if they were to look back on it afterwards either due to the passing of time or due to finding something else which made life worthwhile.

This also is the problem with the autonomy argument - this is not what the person might themselves would choose if they were in a more sober mood. The autonomy argument is also seen as invalid in other situations like when signing oneself to slavery.

Money men being against suicide for economic reasons runs contrary another other point in your post - money might be saved by the suicide of the invalid and sick. Making suicide legal can easily be abused by powerful state officials incentivizing people to commit suicide for economic or political reasons.

So yes, create a good social support system, but don't encourage suicide.

Sometimes suicides are not due to emotions, but facts. Please do not assume emotionality or irrationality on the part of those who do it or consider it.

Source: I am a man who has, and is, "falling through the cracks" as a child abuse victim with multiple disabilities, no hot job skills, and a marginalized identity.

My life is slipping away and I'm almost 40. I am an extremely suboptimal individual as far as capitalism is concerned. The passage of time has only cemented this very real and very grim outlook.

The "powerful state officials" are already doing what you fear they might do, and have been doing it for longer than I've been alive. They do it with prisons or under terms like "austerity" of "welfare queens" or "dole moochers"

Disabled people are treated like garbage. Look to the USA or UK for immediate examples.

"Aktion T4" never went away, it just got privatized.

There is no support or viable path forward for people like me, short of going on Social Security Disability and living in basically a slum if I'm lucky. Honestly If something like MAID was available, I would absolutely take it.

No, I am not irrational or acutely suicidal. No, I do not need some hotline. My upbringing and disability has taught me exactly how society views me over the course of decades. No, touching grass isn't going to solve it.

I have a partner and a job (for now). Partner understands what I'm going through, and is also marginalized and partially disabled, in a dead-end job, also circling the drain.

I was writing about myself and others I know in the same boat.

Go talk to some disabled people and otherwise marginalized people (due to skin color, sexual orientation, neurodivergence, disability, etc. -- often several overlapping things) who are clinging by their nails to the workforce. You'll find many similar stories.

Many of us are gone already. Many of my friends are gone or on their way out (homelessness, etc).

The kind of comprehensive help we need simply isn't there. We disappear quietly. You don't see us go, and we are not noticed or missed by anyone except our immediate circle or whatever community we can cobble together.

Seriously, go talk to people. You'll find that this is a common but unspoken thing.

My post was not meant to trivialize the problems you are facing or that there are easy fix solutions. Dont know how I can help as an anonymous stranger on the net, but just in case you want to talk to someone, you can always send an email.

FWIW, my point was that in many cases suicidal feelings can be relieved and the abuses (that you point correctly say exist already) can become more dangerous when directed towards getting rid of vulnerable people. But, that doesn't mean that chronic, hard-to-cure situations don't exist.

Best.

No, this is wrong in both ways. Painful emotions are painful and not necessarily transiet and transiency is irrelevant to autonomy anyway. In fact, any argument that doesn't underminde the assumption of the right to bodily autonomy is trumped by autonomy.

People with temporary problems have a right to bodily autonomy and so do irrational people. Everyone does and doesn't need to justify themselves to anyone. The only exception is if they're hurting somone else.

> transiency is irrelevant to autonomy

If you are allowing transient decisions for giving away a life, then transient decisions would be allowed for lesser stakes too.

Most societies are debating even something like unrestricted access to drugs. There are people who would take drugs as a conscious/long-term plan for whom the transiency distinction is irrelevant but there are also those who hate it while succumbing to it and would gladly sign a contract to stop access to consumption, if that were practically possible to enforce.

Contracts often involve trading away autonomy of a future self whether for the good or the bad. Signing such a contract is often not legally valid if the person is in a disturbed mental state.

A more common example, children are not allowed to buy alcohol or consent to a sexual relationship with an adult.

The issue being that the immediate decision of the child can be something they would reject if they have more experience and had the ability to make a more informed choice. Of course, the problem of impulsive bad decisions doesn't go away as an adult, but considerations of intrinsic freedom and the problems of giving power to a state become much bigger.

When a criminal commits a crime, a premeditated/planned action is treated more severely than an impulsive action which in turn is treated more severely than an action caused by a mental illness.

Taking one's life is a much more drastic step than drugs or signing a contract.

> not necessarily transient

Not assuming this, chronic examples don't rule out the existence of large families of cases where things can and do look better due to time and a change in circumstances.

This is such a terrible argument. "People might regret things, therefore we should abolish freedom." I guess we should have the state make all decisions for people, just in case. Wouldn't want anyone to ever change their mind about anything and have negative feelings*. Good thinking.

* Dead people don't even have feelings and can't regret anything. Your argument isn't even applicable. There are literally zero consequences for the person.

This is an obvious strawman('We cant deregulate X when we are heavily regulating Y which is much weaker than X' -> 'The government should regulate every aspect of life '), So bye.

> People who are uncomfortable with suicide are ultimately uncomfortable with facing the reality that they live in a society that encourages it.

It really does seem like projection.

In the US, neighbors will pay for your funeral but not your insulin. Collective disinterest in being confronted with the problem.

> In the US, neighbors will pay for your funeral

They do? Genuinely curious.

> why is one not free to die?

For the very simple reasons: it costs money and resources to grow up (and to die), and it’s a life that capitalism could’ve otherwise maybe used.