Calling it “established science” seems like an attempt to shut down scientific discourse and normalize gender dysphoria even though it is a complex topic that causes distress to many people and has ongoing ethical concerns. It becomes even more complex when considering the decades of funding of gender studies which has attempted to normalize and promote it rather than research solutions. Further complicating the issue are financial incentives that encourage treatments. And, there are social and legal incentives that encourage expanding the number of people with that diagnosis. For example, there currently seems to be a push to immediately affirm adolescents with histories of mental health conditions when a more cautious approach may be more helpful.
Edit: Anecdotally, I have a transgender nephew, and three of my good friends have transgender children. Both of my best friend's two children are transgender. My friend went through a bitter divorce a few years ago and was estranged from his 17 year old son for over a year. When he next saw him, his son had already started irreversable treatment even though he hadn’t had any symptoms a year prior. To me, someone who experimented with what they call 'gender fluidity' as a teenager in the 90s, this all seems unusual and should be handled more cautiously.
There are two problems at play here. One is that the science involved pertains to mental health care, which means psychiatrists. Meaning the same specialty that tried psychotherapy and blaming "cold" mothers for autism, and then had a lobotomies for everyone fad, and then got too enamored with electroconvulsive therapy.
I'm too young to have witnessed those, but I did personally see the effects when they launched the Drug of the Month Club in the 1990s. It's hard to look at how they treat gender dysphoria and not suspect it's yet another episode.
BUT....
At the same time what's going on with the Republicans is sheer malice. And it must be fought on those grounds.
Gravity is established science and billions of dollars a year are spent studying it, including efforts to refute parts of our understanding.
How does acknowledging the reality of current scientific understanding in any way “shut down” further exploration? It sounds like the opposite — that peoples’ discomfort with the current state of understanding should be a reason to revert science to a much older state and never mention the subject again.
Typically, though not always, the people who complain about established science shutting down new research are the ones pushing crank and conspiracy theories.
I don't mind if you call me a 'crank'. At least I'm not being shouted down - and I appreciate that.
It's important to understand that I believe that gender dysphoria is a real condition. I mainly question the scale, social dynamics, and the rapid cultural shift. I'm also concerned about the strife and (ironically) dysphoria that it causes.
I am open to the idea that 10% of my adult friends actually have gender dysphoria and just aren't able to talk about it. However, given I knew zero people with gender dysphoria 25 years ago but now 10% of the adolescents (and two 4th graders!) that I know have gender dysphoria, it is a surprising change.
Also, I feel like science should be open to scrutiny, and shutting down discussion only increases distrust. And, over the past 10 years, many people have been shut out from the conversation.
I’m genuinely curious why you care if other people, with their own loving families, are too quick to diagnose dysmorphia.
Sure, there can be bad outcomes from overdiagnosis. But also from under diagnosis and from stigma. It seems like a very difficult and challenging thing to get right, so why put energy into second-guessing experts and people directly affected? What good can come from a semi-knowledgeable person with no personal stake forming strong opinions that they’re doing it wrong?
I’m old enough to remember when liberalized attitudes towards homosexuality were blamed for a huge increase in incidence. And it’s been long enough now that it’s pretty obvious that no, there really were that many closeted people suffering in ways small to large.
Not being gay or suffering from body dysmorphia, it’s hard for me to imagine wanting to tell people they’re wrong about their (or their children’s) gender identity.
Sorry if that came across as lecture-y, I honestly meant it as background for curiosity about why you feel the need to have strong opinions.
It's a reasonable question. Looking back, I can see how it seems that way. On the contrary, I believe people should do what they want. I've always supported my sister, my nephew, my friends and their kids, and their kids' friends. I've voted 'yes' to transgender policy for as long as it's been an issue.
It's only after struggling to motivate my lifelong liberal friends to vote that I started to re-think my opinion and research more. And, now my opinion is more mixed. I've read a few of the landmark papers on suicide rates for instance. And, there are big problems with the methodologies. However, you can't question or you will get labelled a bigot.
Maybe I'm too utilitarian, but I've been working toward liberal / progressive goals for the last 30 years. And, I just saw most get set back 30 years largely because of this wedge issue.
And, I don't not support them now. But, I feel like the approach that's being taken is unrealistic and way too heavy-handed and top down. It's not a strategy that will succeed, but it's taking a lot down with it.
I hope transgender activists will take a more pragmatic approach in the future. I hope they understand that lots of people over 40 can't relate to what they're talking about. This is different from other social justice activism in which most people could at least kind of relate to. Activists should also work on better outreach and good-will activities so that the average person recognizes them as nice, kind, and helpful people. You're not going to win support by shouting at people online. And, be happy with incremental wins. Changing culture takes time.
Thanks - very eye-opening. My rough calculations show that four million US lives could have been saved over the past 100 years if only we had adopted handedness-sensitivity and modified schools and workplaces to account for left-handedness. I'm now thinking of pushing for a right-to-left version of written English.
One aspect that I find alarming about gender dysmorphia as a diagnosis is that it seems to pathologize gender non-conformity. For example, in some circles it's more acceptable to be a trans man than a "butch" woman. And the diagnostic criteria for gender dysmorphia might put a butch woman in the "trans" bucket if she were to talk to a doctor.
To me this is a betrayal of what feminism was after in the early 2000 - namely moving away from rigid gender stereotypes.
What we're witnessing is active malice against two populations: people who are dysphoric and would like help to be comfortable in their own bodies, and people who are perfectly comfortable as they are and would like the rest of us to accept that they will not take measures to change their trans-gender physical characteristics.
What we need is a campaign with a firm message of "hands off, all of them."
In 2021 a survey by the Pew Research Center found that about 4.5% of U.S. adults identify as gay, but when asked what percentage of the population they believe is gay, Americans on average estimated around 20%. Similarly, a study from Britain's NHS found that British youths were 50 times more likely to suffer from gender distress since 2011. To back that up, Reuters worked with Komodo Health recently and found a 3 times increase the diagnosis of gender dysphoria from 2017 - 2021.
So with this context as a backdrop, and knowing that fascists and their money were behind it, did they manipulate narratives to create an impression amongst Americans that there are 5 times as many gay people as there actually are? And did they also create a sudden surge in demand for gender affirming care?
Tactically, how did they go about that? Did they takeover Hollywood? The media? Was their plan to create a narrative that normalizes the fringe so as to ignite hatred towards that fringe? Sounds like a pretty clever chess game.
Billionaires experiencing midlife crisis and andropause started receiving gender affirming care, the same enjoyed by the military and law enforcement for decades, were courted by the fringe to amplify their ideas to disaffected people failed by the institutions that created those billionaires. The fruit of your individual merit is threatened by these chemically altered silver-spoon fed man-children threatened by mortality filling the greedy black hole in their psyche with your unexamined acceptance. But feel free to instead focus your ire on the current analog for "the Rootless Cosmopolitan" that is the source of all of your perceived discomforts. Make no mistake, I understand that there is a greedy black hole in the minds of many, and for some, it is filled by adopting ideas considered secret unacceptable truths contrary to the unwell mainstream that finds them despicable. You're not sick, they are, and there is only one cure-all solution. But at last, your brave difficult truths are told openly and you are emancipated from the shadows! Congratulations and good luck trampling the few to build monuments for the even fewer.
You mean gender dysphoria. Body dysmorphia is also something trans people experience. You’re basically making the “they’re killing the twinks!” argument with absolutely no evidence for diagnosticians leading patients towards transition. My experience as a trans woman is that I had to fight my doctors to believe me, and this is a common experience in my circles. I know dozens of trans people, and not a single one was told by a doctor that they were trans. We call it the prime directive, and we even apply it between friends.
As a gay man, I will begrudgingly volunteer as a sacrificial genital checker. I will sit at the entrance to the men's restroom, like a bouncer of a club, and the men that are concerned about who is in which bathroom can show me their penis prior to gaining entry to the restroom. That way, we can make sure restrooms are safe for all.
The most rapes involving trans people are in men’s prisons where trans women are put. You’re very thinly veiled in your fascist rhetoric.
If misused bathroom rape was the actual issue at play, men would simply push the fucking door open and rape the women you apparently care so deeply to protect. Men with motive to use the opposite bathroom would not go through the often sterilizing trouble of hormone replacement therapy when the doors are already unlocked. You tell on yourself badly with this argument, rightbound.
My “fascist rhetoric” involves protecting jailed women from being raped, yes.
It’s strange how great leftist ideals transfer into horrible daily life. It’s qualified as fascist to want to avoid being knived on the street or not administering hormons to 5-year olds.
The leftist rhetoric is eerly close to the NSDAP program:
- Administering hormons to children,
- Rapes,
- Freeing criminals,
- Mixing bombing population into normal crowds,
- Raising pensions and teacher wages,
- Promoting false science,
- A humongous racial plan,
- Veganism, dogs and painting,
- A senile leader that lets corporations govern america.
If it were me, I’d say the Democrats’ plan is nazism. And fortunately 51% people voted against this nonsense.
That's because male-on-male violence, including sexual violence, is endemic in many male prisons. How any particular male victim may identify is secondary to this safeguarding failure within the male prison system.
Edit: Anecdotally, I have a transgender nephew, and three of my good friends have transgender children. Both of my best friend's two children are transgender. My friend went through a bitter divorce a few years ago and was estranged from his 17 year old son for over a year. When he next saw him, his son had already started irreversable treatment even though he hadn’t had any symptoms a year prior. To me, someone who experimented with what they call 'gender fluidity' as a teenager in the 90s, this all seems unusual and should be handled more cautiously.