Here's a creative idea to partially solve the charging problem. Have people buy the fast chargers for their homes, and then get listed in a database where people could stop by and pay for a charge on their travels. It would be like AirBnB but for charging electric cars.
That's exactly what we're doing at http://www.plugshare.com. Check it out. The blue icons are residential charging stations and the green icons are public charging stations. Over 2,000 people have signed up to share their home electricity with EV drivers in need of a charge.
I like your site but I would love to also use your site as a reference point for setting up my own station. I imagine you can monetize this lead generation process in some way as well.
Why would I buy a fast-charger for my home? It will never pay for itself in fees, and you don't need one at home – overnight charging meets essentially everyone's needs in that case.
Edit: just to be clear, I support people sharing their chargers. But fast charging is overkill.
IMO, the whole idea of electric vehicles is a waste of time unless the government (or at least a dominant market player) steps in and standardizes battery sizes for fast replacement at existing service stations. It should take less time to recharge an EV than it does to refill a gasoline tank, not more.
Anyone who has ever exchanged a propane cylinder for their backyard barbecue should understand why this is the only conceivable way to make electric vehicles work. I can't begin to imagine why I'm the only person who actually thinks that way.
> IMO, the whole idea of electric vehicles is a waste of time unless the government (or at least a dominant market player) steps in and standardizes battery sizes for fast replacement at existing service stations. It should take less time to recharge an EV than it does to refill a gasoline tank, not more.
Oh, come on. First World Problem: "My new pollution free cars fills at home, but on the few occasions that I have to go out of my way for energy it takes 10 minutes to refuel instead of 2."
You're ignoring the substantial problems that battery swapping introduces – it introduces issues of standardization, compatibility between cars, more moving parts, more weight, additional vehicle design constraints, and creates enormous inertia in battery technology. It constrains innovation. No company can come out with "The 2021 Leaf, now with 15% denser batteries!" without fragmenting the shared supply of battery packs.
I admire Shai Agassi's business model, everyone seems to be fixating on the battery swapping aspect. It's incidental. The real innovation there is using the cell-phone business model on electric cars.
Imho, an alternative solution with fewer drawbacks would be offering "on-shore" cooling by exchanging a fluid coolant through the charge connector. The charge-rate constraint isn't really the batteries, it's how fast you can cool the batteries. With offboard cooling you could charge a ~300 mile range EV in about 3 minutes without over-sized onboard cooling. You're also more likely to find a use for the waste heat offboard, e.g. melting ice or preheating water.
The down-sides of this system are small – any sufficiently high-current "cable" would already be mounted on a "weightless" articulation rig, or a robotic solution that plugs in automatically when you park (Shai Agassi has been working on this technology).
Most people don't drive their cars 24/7. Even on road trips it's more like 12 or 18 hours.
Once battery capacities reach the point where you only have to charge it at night for a full day's drive, you've solved the problem and you don't need to swap.
And, while the price tag is high, the 300 mile claimed range of the highest trim Model S gets a substantial part of the way to that standard.
Once battery capacities reach the point where you only have to charge it at night for a full day's drive, you've solved the problem and you don't need to swap.
Perhaps that's true... once batteries get about 2x as good as they are now, owners of cars like the Tesla won't have to worry so much about whether there will be power available at their destination.
My impression is that the next 2x improvement in battery tech is pretty far over the horizon, though. Plus, we simply do not have the grid capacity to replace most Americans' automobiles with rechargeable EVs. Not even by charging them at night. Once 80% of the houses in your neighborhood plug in an 8-kw load at night, this inconvenient truth will become obvious enough.
Exchangeable batteries could be charged anywhere, anytime, not just where and when they are needed. That's a big win regardless of what happens with the core technology of power storage.
>Once battery capacities reach the point where you only have to charge it at night for a full day's drive, you've solved the problem and you don't need to swap.
Modern batteries (LiFePO4) can be charged in 10-15 minutes. I know I'm going to want to walk around for 10-15 minutes after driving for 120 miles. Heck, that's even the recommendation to avoid DVT!
High range is one way to solve the problem. Fast-charge is another.
If I exchange a propane cylinder, I am capable of judging if it is what it's supposed to be. No rust, clean valve, correct weight. I cannot judge whether I'm getting swapped in a battery that is going to die. A propane cylinder costs about the same as its contents. A $10k battery holds less than $1 worth of energy.
I cannot judge whether I'm getting swapped in a battery that is going to die.
Sure, you can. When's the last time the battery display on your laptop or cell phone lied to you? Battery monitoring tech has been reliable since the lead-acid days, and it's only gotten better over the past few years.
There'd be some redundancy in most cases anyway. A sports car might require two or three standard battery units, each of which would consist of numerous individually-monitored cells. An 18-wheeler might require thirty or forty of the same standard battery packages, or perhaps ten of a larger form factor (think 'AA' versus 'C' or 'D'). In both cases the vehicles would be able to limp on half-power or less, in the event of battery failures.
This objection is a complete non-starter, no pun intended.
Edit: By the way, those swappable battery modules are going to last a lot longer since they won't need to be fast-charged.
(Shrug) They're not slow at mandating things like 55 MPG CAFE regulations, or at declaring CO2 a toxic pollutant. They would have a perfectly legitimate role to play in standardizing battery packages, IMO.
This is probably the kind of thing that would need to be done by international agreement, if it can be done at all.
... because it allows for an 80% charge in a very short amount of time... you're extending the infrastructure of places you can charge Teslas; and if you monetize it ($15-20 for full, fast charge) then you're making money.
> ... because it allows for an 80% charge in a very short amount of time...
I know what a fast-charger does, but you still don't need one at home. You need to sleep, remember?
Do you need a gas station in your garage?
> you're extending the infrastructure of places you can charge Teslas
At $25k/station you're going to need more than "the cause".
> if you monetize it ($15-20 for full, fast charge) then you're making money.
I assumed so. You'll still never make back what you put in.
Current prices are around $7 for a 30 minute charge. Of that, $2 is electricity. You'll also need to pay the electric company extra to have a bigger connection to the grid (>100A at 480V), which usually costs hundreds of $ per month.
