> For me it's not arbitrary. An android device is a general purpose handheld touchscreen computer that happens to be used for music

Android is just an operating system. I’ve developed and shipped Android based devices that have no screen at all.

Android and Linux are both used for a wide variety of embedded systems. Saying they’re all general purpose computing devices isn’t true.

> Going for a run with a 240g brick is no fun, it'll pull your pants down to your knees and trip you.

Then don’t pick the largest device with a big screen? There are many smaller DAPs and phones that run Android. The reason that device is so large isn’t because it runs Android.

Generally, across most DAP manufacturers, the android devices are all of those things that I don't want, and the non-android devices tend to be cheaper, lighter, with better battery life. I don't specifically choose non-android, I specifically chose those other parameters and have simply noticed a pattern. I don't doubt you, but you haven't given any examples and I'm not going to spend my life searching for the exception that proves the rule.

My first Android phone was a Samsung Galaxy S2. It weighted two grams less than that Hiby R1. Of course it was much larger, but tiny by today's standards.

https://m.gsmarena.com/samsung_i9100_galaxy_s_ii-3621.php

Never mind mp3 players, I'd love a small phone again also. It's ridiculous that there isn't a single decent android phone

I loved the buttons on the Galaxy Spica https://www.gsmarena.com/samsung_i5700_galaxy_spica-pictures...

Now that I think about it, going no-buttons might have been a driver towards larger screens. Having at least a few buttons seemed to make it much less necessary.

> 240g brick pantsing you

Sometimes I wish people from 1995 could read our threads and see the things we’re complaining about.

240 grams is twice as heavy as for example an average minidisc player (https://www.minidisc.wiki/equipment/sony/portable/mz-g750) which could often weigh less than 100g.

The very first cassette Walkman was about 40 grams light: https://www.soundandvision.com/content/flashback-1979-sony-s...

The Rio MP3 player was 109 grams: https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2016/10/diamond-rio-pmp300-m...

The classic Creative Nomad weighs in at 45g including battery: https://www.crutchfield.com/S-HglCxgxN2we/p_053NX128/Creativ...

> 240 grams is twice as heavy as for example an average minidisc player (https://www.minidisc.wiki/equipment/sony/portable/mz-g750) which could often weigh less than 100g.

The parent comment chose an unusually large DAP with a big screen to compare to. It’s not really a fair comparison.

Also the weights of old devices are usually listed without batteries, which could increase the overall weight by 50% or more.

I had a minidisc player a long time ago. It was a quality one, but it wasn’t the lightest or more robust thing to carry around.

You see that I used the weights including batteries for all but the minidisc player which is specced at 144g including those, right?

Almost certainly a typo, the first Walkman was 390g or 14 ounces (not 1.4oz)

Yes, it seems you are correct. For example this one is 180g including batteries: https://www.1001hifi.info/2025/01/sony-wm-20-1983-worlds-sma...

Though I stand by my implied argument that older devices were not as heavy as we might remember them to be. And it is okay to consider 240g a bit too heavy in the context of a digital music player with no need for cassettes or mechanical parts.

I read the advert as claiming that the headphones for that Walkman are 1.4oz, which seems plausible (they're a very flimsy design).

Well, I had something like this back in the late 90s (can't recall the year exactly)

https://walkman.land/aiwa/hs-px297

    Battery: 1AA gets 30h
    Dimensions: 111.4 x 29.1 x 80.7 mm
    Weight: 132g

Ok, so you were limited to 90 minute tapes with slow seek. But aside from that compare it to the specs I posted for the android vs non-android mp3 players. Remember, this cassette player has some seriously impressive clockwork inside that case and it's still smaller and much lighter than the android.

Also remember you can just buy another AA battery, and keep a few spares in your bag.

Ok, and each AA battery you keep in your bag adds another 23 grams, so "a few" (let's say 3) and you're already right back up to 192 grams

If you're going running with your Walkman I think 30 hours on a single AA would be fine

We live in 2026 now, with expectations that are matched to the current year.

I've got the Hiby R1 and have been pretty pleased with it. The R1 doesn't actually run android but just straight linux. It boots up in about 6-8 seconds and returns to the place you previously were. As for physical controls it's got easy to identify buttons for volume, pause (double click for previous track) and next track that are pretty easy to find in a pocket.

No experience with the R4 but seems to have good reviews with the hifi crowd.

Whats wrong with some Nokia brick? Has bluetooth, probably 3.5mm jack too, lasts a week, has more physical buttons than you need for playing mp3s. Costs little

I have a few, and for managing and playing music the UX is absolute ass. Fine for dialing a number and occasionally switching to silent mode, but that's about it.

Does the battery actually last a week while playing music over Bluetooth?

They last so long you forget they need charging.