Whatever your view on AI and data usage, this is not an acceptable reason to arrest someone. I do view that we are taking just brute force too far, we need to pause and reconsider energy usage and waste and refocus on the algorithms to be more efficient first. Our focus should not just be the Jeremy Clarkson method of more power.
From the perspective of the data centre guys, efficiency gains make (over)spend on data centres even more worthwhile. The more efficiency gains there are the more work the datacentres can do, and the more money they make.
The erosion of civil rights in the US right now is shocking. The notion that city councillors should be able to order the detention of a citizen is just bonkers. I hope every one of these councilors is voted out and police need serious personal financial consequences and sanctions.
Fundamentally the US has too many police forces, each of which is a law unto itself.
I think its ok to ask the disrupter to leave and if he refuses, just trespass him. I would hold this opinion independently of the contents of the meeting transcripts. From reading this page, the disrupter should probably be charged with trespassing as I didn't get a sense of his willingness to leave the meeting.
He wasn't being disruptive, and councillors can't redefine behaviour like mild clapping as disruptive.
Threatening with trespass shouldn't be an option against someone exercising their rights as a citizen and resident unless directed by a court order. It simply isn't open to the police to lay hands on a citizen for something that isn't an offence.
Looks like this is basically what happened - the linked video footage https://x.com/JasonBassler1/status/2081182966030745720 shows the guy being asked to leave the meeting by the cops, he refuses to leave and tells them "drag me out", the cops proceed to drag him out.
The video footage doesn't show how disruptive he was being; but I find it reasonable that he was clapping in a way that the the person running the public comment meeting had specifically asked people not to do in the name of expediently getting to as many comments as possible.
This is the kind of situation that I think would come up in basically any human society, even some maximally-anarchist society without the institution of police. If you're having a public meeting to decide on some policy, you need someone to be in charge of the procedural rules of that meeting; if someone doesn't like something about the meeting and is doing something that arguably breaks the procedural rules, you need someone to adjudicate this and decide whether or not to compel them to leave. If someone is compelled to leave a meeting, and they resist, you need someone who will physically force them to.
> The video footage doesn't show how disruptive he was being; but I find it reasonable that he was clapping in a way that the the person running the public comment meeting had specifically asked people not to do in the name of expediently getting to as many comments as possible.
You're suggesting that the bar arbitrarily set by a councilmember on what counts as sufficient disruption to hurt expediency* trumps what seems like just clapping and agreement -- one would argue is clearly protected speech per the 1st amendment and I'd argue squarely within the spirit of why we have public comments in the first place?
I think that's a pretty slippery slope and enables projecting power through process, not something we want from our elected officials.
*an aside - why is expediency the goal? if this is a contentious topic, schedule more time so the focus is on receiving public feedback!)
Clapping 5 times after the first speaker has finished talking and the next speaker is yet to begin is not "disruptive".
Just about Anything can be considered "disruptive" by that definition. What is next ? Get someone arrested since they made a face or frowned at your speech ? Or sneezed or coughed ? Why even bother with an audience then ?
This is a bad video, it has been trimmed to just show the police confrontation, and not the alleged offence. Ironically I can't find a non-tiktok source for the longer video, this is from 404media TT but not their website.
Lux Claridge claps only 5 claps, and is ejected as his wife is at the podium to take her turn. The linkage makes this clear violation of 1A rights.
Not talking specifically to this case, but if you're loud and disruptive, you can prevent others from exercising their free speech. The meetings do need some rules.
The erosion of civil rights in the US right now is shocking. The notion that any citizen should be able to disrupt and hinder business meetings of city councillors is just bonkers. I hope every one of these citizens is thrown in jail and activist citizens need serious personal financial consequences and sanctions.
Fundamentally the US has too many special interest groups, each of which is a law unto itself.
Is a public council meeting a private business meeting? Or in fact a forum for citizens to give input?
Is a lone individual, or even a whole room, clapping a speech, disrupting?
What law has the individual broken by clapping or speaking? Councillors do not make law by speaking. They should get a court order if someone is being persistently disruptive, not use bully boy police intimidation.
Special interest groups do indeed have private police forces in the US, that routinely misuse the wide powers available.
> Is a lone individual, or even a whole room, clapping a speech, disrupting?
Yeah, if the presider of the meeting asks people not to do that in order to get through more comments.
> What law has the individual broken by clapping or speaking? Councillors do not make law by speaking. They should get a court order if someone is being persistently disruptive, not use bully boy police intimidation.
> Special interest groups do indeed have private police forces in the US, that routinely misuse the wide powers available.
The people who dragged him out looked like the normal town police enforcing order at a public meeting in a normal way. This is the most basic function of police - or equivalently, anyone who does this job is doing policing, regardless of whether they're a uniformed official or just the physically biggest three guys in town.
You are confusing 'enforcing order' with anti democratic supression of speech. A few claps is not disorderly behaviour. There is no conceivable way that the clapping delayed proceedings; in fact, the supression of speech activities took far more time.
> “Chief, will you take the next person out that claps or anything?” an unidentified commissioner, likely Duncan, then asked Emporia police chief Ed Owens.
Uh oh someone heard something they didn’t like and someone clapped…
Why should AI enthusiasts expect logical reasoning?
AI "reasoning" is the model babbling to itself, using statistically likely sequences of words that appear in the training data. Of course that will often produce valid chains of logic, but not because it in any way understands the principle behind it. It is ONLY modelling LANGUAGE, not any of the mental processes that guide the use of language in humans (and which might even exist in animals not capable of language).
When asked to carefully check itself, it might spot errors because their structure matches common examples of fallacies, or it might not, and instead insert some further bullshit like "Assumption Verified — 100% correct! It all checks out [insert some emojis here]". That then becomes part of its context, and further boosts its unfounded confidence.
Counterpoint, AI is amazing and I can't wait for it to replace human jobs.
I joke that chat GPT is my child's primary pediatrician. It's not perfect but humans aren't either and it makes fewer mistakes than the Clinic and available in seconds 24 hours a day.
Offloading your own healthcare to a LLM is a thing, forcing that decision onto a child is another altogether. I really hope your child never has serious health issues...
This morning the clinic collected my 6 year olds weight wrong twice because the nurse didnt know the difference between 6.13 lbs and 6lbs 13 Oz.
That's the difference between a baby that is 20% underweight and dying versus its birth weight.
I made them show me how they did it twice before leaving.
After I left I got a call from the doctor apologizing that all of their neonates weights were wrong that morning because their staff don't know the difference between decimals and ounces
Humans are incredibly error prone. Modern llms are far better than that.
When my wife was pregnant, the OB was asking an LLM for medication contraindcations while we were in the office. She showed us the model she used.
Tell me you’ve not seriously had to interact with the US healthcare system without telling me…
LLMs make mistakes, so do humans. Especially humans who dedicate <15min to a patient and often are reading the charts/info in front of the patient for the first time (during that short window).
If it were me I would be more concerned about what kind of future we're actually building for my child, but fair enough. Immediate survival takes priority.
That said, I think an awful lot of children today are going to grow up under the shadow of AI and they will not be grateful for it.
Yeah, like I said, I hope we work it out! The technology isnt going away. Maybe we can slow and contol it with global coordination if China and US can cooperate.
The future will be different. Hopefully the good ways will outweigh the bad.
Im fairly excited about AI integrated child education. I think it opens a lot of opportunities for kids to move and explore at their own pace- Hopefully with a caring human involved in some areas.
I see that phones and tablets are absolutely cooking the brains of my nieces and nephews, I don't have any hope that adding AI to the mix will help that any
Yeah, my expectation is it'll be like phones, tablets, or internet today where responsible parents highly restrict them and are thoughtful and deliberate in their usage.
The downside is that this raises the developmental ceiling and lowers the floor, but those kids will have to find a way to coexist as adults.
Some parents will have purpose built llm tutors, while other parents will just cut their kids loose with grok and Twitter.
Could you please stop posting unsubstantive comments and flamebait? You've unfortunately been doing it repeatedly. It's not what this site is for, and destroys what it is for.
