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I didn't say anything about reliability or single points of failure. I merely pointed out that it was possible to separate the salt from the hashes and gain security that way. Whether this is practical or not depends on how important security is to you.

And yes, it would not be possible to dump the contents of the devices.



The proposal is fundamentally impractical, and thus not a "security gain" in any meaningful sense. It's the equivalent of preventing cipher algorithm breaks by using nothing but one-time pads.

It's also theoretically impure in any case, as you've done nothing but add an additional peripheral to the computer. You're seeking obfuscation, not real cryptographic integrity.


No, using an HSM to store a secret is done widely (in banking, for PINs), and it's entirely possible to implement them in a way where individual device failures can be mitigated.

The only issue is cost of HSMs; they're about $20k/ea right now, since there are only two significant vendors, and they're not widely used.

If someone wanted to do "HSM for general purpose web login, to eliminate the DoS potential of scrypt, and the brute force hash db problem of anything else, and the idiocy of plaintext", the price could probably drop down to $500 or less.


>It's also theoretically impure in any case, as you've done nothing but add an additional peripheral to the computer. You're seeking obfuscation, not real cryptographic integrity.

It's not obfuscation. The peripheral has a far smaller attack surface than a server. This is real security, even if it comes at a cost of reliability (though one can envision ways of fixing this, too).


It's operational/system security. That's not the same thing as cryptographic security.

Stop trying to patch a hole that isn't there. Salt is not secret data. If you want to protect the hash with secret data, take A1kmm's advice and use the smart card to encrypt it. But don't call that a salt, because it fundamentally is not one.




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