> I'd rather draw parallel to Ancient Rome and its citizens. As long as there were "Games" in town and bread for free nobody cared. Once the Rome was on fire they woke up. For some time.
This is not why the Roman empire collapsed. In fact the term "collapse" itself implies some weird sudden event, rather then a gradual evolution over the course of hundreds of years into the various entities which became the forerunners of nation-states today.
The Byzantine empire - east Rome - has no definitive end, for example.
I agree with you 100%. My post (I think) was more about decline than collapse. All the negative development we currently see in the US from militarization to weak economy are signs of decline and not collapse.
Like UK -- it has declined from an Empire Status, but did not collapse. I agree - the same with Roman Empire.
You're incorrect here again. Byzantium retained its integrity, but Rome, the city, did collapse thanks to invasions by Germanic tribes and the Huns. So did most of Europe that was under Roman control, and some portions of North Africa as well. Constantinople stayed standing for quite a while. Control shifted around, falling into the hands of the Mamluks, Seljuks, and subsequently the Ottoman Turks, from where Turkey gets its name.
There are numerous other civilizations (for instance, dynastic China) that have suffered decline rather than outright collapse. Rome was not one of them though; the entire Western Empire broke apart. It's just not a good example.
There is no correct and incorrect. I claim - as many historians do - that The Roman Empire continued for many centuries more than you claim:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holy_Roman_Empire
And yet, I agree, there are historians who will claim that The Holy Roman Empire had nothing to do with Roman Empire. Still it is debatable. There is no correct/incorrect here. For me the Holy Roman Empire was the continuation of the Roman Empire.
This is not why the Roman empire collapsed. In fact the term "collapse" itself implies some weird sudden event, rather then a gradual evolution over the course of hundreds of years into the various entities which became the forerunners of nation-states today.
The Byzantine empire - east Rome - has no definitive end, for example.