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There are several forms of privacy here and it's important to make the distinction before arguing about what country has the better laws.

One form of privacy is about what information the government is allowed to gather about its citizens and what citizens can do about it. Before Snowden many would have argued that this is the US's strong point because of things like the 4th Amendment. Post-Snowden it is pretty evident that these rights have been hollowed out to the point where they have become meaningless.

The next form of privacy is about what information companies can collect and what you can do about that. In the US this is practically non-existent. It's the anti-thesis to the business models of lots of big companies like Facebook and Google. In Germany by comparison a company is legally required to inform you (in print, if requested) what information about you it has on records, who it has passed this information on to and to delete all of that information permanently at the end of a business relationship (e.g. if you want to delete your account). What's more, you have to give explicit consent to how your data is processed and used (this is why the TOS opt-in is legally necessary -- oh, and a TOS can not contain any unreasonable or unexpected clauses either).

The third form is about protecting your privacy against society. This tends to vary even within the same jurisdiction depending on who you are -- the protections may be different for persons of interest (including celebrities and politicians) or even depend on the situation (e.g. the privacy of a police officer may only be protected when they are off duty).

I'm German, so I'm obviously biased, but I can try to offer a nuanced explanation why I think German privacy laws are stronger than American privacy laws.

As I already said, companies require your ongoing consent to handle your personally identifiable information. In many cases, companies also have to be a privacy officer whose role is to oversee how that information is processed and to protect the privacy of customers or users. Of course there is a conflict of interest but misbehaviour can mean they are breaking the law (much like an accountant breaking the law because a higher-up tells them to).

In reverse, every commercial actor on the Internet (where criteria for commercial actions can be as simple as "receiving any money whatsoever" even if it's banner ads that barely cover your expenses) is legally required to provide contact information including a summonable postal address. This can be considered a limitation of privacy but also ensures users/customers can actually make use of their rights afforded by consumer protection laws. In other words: German law distinguishes between a right to privacy and a right to anonymity (the latter of which is not legally guaranteed by German law).

In terms of privacy from the government, Germany sadly shares the troubling problems of the US. Furthermore, thanks to post-war agreements (and follow-ups to those original agreements), several countries including the US basically have a carte blanche, especially when it comes to spying on German citizens. There is a cognitive dissonance between what Germans tend to think the government is allowed to do and what it actually does (and legally so, it seems) but both the Verfassungsschutz (the domestic security agency) and the BND (the foreign intelligence agency) have come under public scrutiny for worrying behaviour and potential corruption -- in the case of the Verfassungsschutz there is a strong indication that the agency focusses on left-wing extremists while blatantly ignoring the far more active right-wing extremists, either because of we actually had a left-wing terrorist organization in the past (the Baader-Meinhof group) or because it has an unfair systemic right-wing bias itself.

Finally, a lot of the paparazzi style "journalism" is illegal in Germany although there is a lot of leeway for celebrities and politicians ("Personen der Zeitgeschichte"). We don't have perp walks (though there have been episodes of an attempted "Americanization" of celebrity trials in Germany -- luckily heavily criticized in the parts of the media that didn't engage in it). If a friend shares a picture of you on Facebook they are legally required to take it down (as is Facebook) if you don't want it to be public and you can even sue for damages where appropriate (though good luck with that as the money you can get out of suing for damages in Germany is pennies on the dollar compared to the US).

I should also mention that every German adult has to have an ID card (with a biometric photo) and inform their local civic center whenever their address changes (to ensure there is always an official record of a summonable address). Contrary to popular belief you're not legally required to carry the ID card (unless you're driving a motor vehicle, in which case you also need to carry your driver's license and papers for the vehicle and have a valid license plate). In turn you don't have to register to vote (you will automatically be sent the documents you need to bring in when casting your vote as well as a form to sign up for a postal vote if you can't be at the voting center on that day).

Oh, and before I forget: unlike the special protection medical and legal confidentiality get, the banking confidentiality is not impenetrable in Germany. I don't think clerical confidentiality is either, but Germany's church-state separation leaves a lot to be desired (the ruling political party actually has "Christian" in the name and Merkel repeatedly said that Europe is founded on Christian values, the government collects church tax as an actual tax and pays up to 100% of the operating costs of "church-owned" hospitals, schools and so on -- I could go on for hours but the situation is pretty dire even if there isn't much public awareness of it).



There never was a "bank secrecy", but almost everyone believes there was and it was abolished in some attack on our rights. It's possibly one one the widest-spread legal myths.

An acquaintance of mine is a state prosecutor, and he's always amused about this. IIRC it goes so far that when he requests information from a bank employee, he usually directly tells him to ask his in-house legal counsel if he's allowed to withhold information.

What really existed and was softened quite a bit was "tax secrecy". The tax agency was not allowed to freely peek into your accounts. But criminal investigators always could.

About the CDU: having a party for Christians is in no way against the seperation of church and state. Actually it's the other way around: if Christians were not allowed to form parties (or name them as such), it would amount to state-sponsored discrimination against Christians and endorsement of everyone else.

The government collects the "church tax", but neither creates it, nor keeps it. The churches themselves decide if and how much to "tax", and they pay the state for the collection service.

The rest of your anti-Christian rant is also pretty much baseless, but not easily refuted with a single sentence.

Edit: I don't want to seem to pick on you too much; I liked the rest of your comment and upvoted it (which doesn't matter since I replied afterwards).


For the record, I'm not anti-Christian, I'm anti-religion.

I agree that the CDU itself is not in direct violation of the separation of church and state but Germany decidedly does not have a separation between church and state -- unlike the US. The absurdity of course being that Germany is religiously fairly moderate in comparison.

I'll also freely point out that most of the benefits religions (or Christianity in particular) receive in Germany[0] are not actually being justified with religious arguments but arguments from tradition or the will of the majority and so on.

My biggest gripe with the two big Christian churches in particular (the Catholic church of Germany and the federation of various Lutheran and other evangelical churches) is with the church-operated hospitals, kindergartens, schools and so on.

First of all, because these are operated by the church, the regular labour laws do not fully apply. Instead the church is allowed to apply ecclesiastical law. Aside from voiding various labour protection rights this also allows them to openly discriminate in accordance with religious laws -- e.g. against non-believers or (in the case of the Catholic church) gay or divorced couples.

Additionally, despite being granted this special status, in many cases the majority of the financial burden is actually carried by the state[1], in some cases covering up to 100%[2]. For all intents and purposes, these are public, state-funded institutions that are operated under church law for no discernible reason other than history. And while we're talking about accidents of history, Germany is also directly paying the church on top of all that[3][4].

As for the church tax: I'm sure that the position of the Christian churches is not unique -- if the Jewish council or a hypothetical unified Muslim church[5] was to levy such a tax I'm sure that would be collected just as well. But it's inconsistent to argue that it's fine for the government to collect church tax alongside actual taxes for the churches but not other mandatory fees (like the Rundfunkbeitrag -- the now universally mandatory fee that supports the public broadcasting channels). I'm aware of the argument about separating the state and the public media (because we're paranoid about state-controlled media for obvious reasons) of course, but the core point is that the tax agency is not a state-sanctioned collection agency for membership fees.

Oh, and of course there's little things like the fact that religious freedom of the parents trumps infant boys' right to bodily integrity[6]. But to be fair, that court decision was mostly based on not upsetting the Jewish community and we have good reason not to want to upset the Jewish community considering what we did to them less than a hundred years ago.

[0]: http://www.3sat.de/page/?source=/ard/sendung/176358/index.ht...

[1]: http://www1.wdr.de/fernsehen/aks/themen/kirchlichetraegersch...

[2]: http://www.heise.de/tp/artikel/38/38390/1.html

[3]: http://www.taz.de/!5064407/

[4]: http://blog.handelsblatt.com/handelsblog/2013/10/11/warum-za...

[5]: The problem Muslims face with regard to being recognized at the same level as Christians and Jews is that Islam is not as well-structured in Germany at this point. Because Islam is still largely an immigrant religion (i.e. its members being an incredibly heterogeneous group coming from many different places), there isn't one Islam but several versions of it, much like the many different evangelical churches. Unlike the different evangelical churches they're not likely to unify any time soon. It took the evangelical churches until the early 20th century to unify in Germany.

[6]: http://www.tagesspiegel.de/politik/ein-jahr-beschneidungsges...




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