23 year old Indian developer here. The concept of 'moving out' of your parents home is baffling for most of us. I now live in a different city and I share a decent apartment with friends. I can afford to live alone in the apartment I now live in - the rent is 30% of my monthly income and the apartment is 15 minutes away from where I work - but living alone would be just awful. So I'm now paying 11% of my income for rent(electricity, water and a maid included) because I stay with friends. Eventually, most of us would want to move back to our hometowns if we can get a job with similar pay - and live with our parents. Not because it would be cheaper and mom would cook yummy food - but it is just the way it is. In our society, NOT living with your parents when you can is frowned upon. "These are people who raised you and know you well and care for you, why would you want to move out?" is how the society thinks. Also, in a way it is nice. You are NEVER alone. You ALWAYS have people waiting for you when you come back from work. 'Being alone' is seldom a reason for a depressed Indian - the family is always there.
However, compared to the west, we have little to no privacy. We are raised to not expect much privacy in the first place so we don't really miss it. Kids do NOT get a room of their own - never ever - they bunk with siblings. I was around 15 when I got a room of my 'own'. There's no pressure to move out once you grow up - parents would do their best to KEEP you home in fact. I would not have had to 'move out' if my college was not 200 km away. There's one big trade off with the whole set up though - no sex till you get married ;)
It's unreal how greatly the human experience can vary - I was born in the uk to itinerant parents (finance father), raised by a series of aupairs, and was sent to boarding school at six. Despite my parents being wealthy and having the space, I did not have a room at home from that point - when I went home for holidays, I would stay in the guest room, and when my brother was born, his room.
When I "left home" at 16 upon completing school and going to university, it couldn't have been less of an issue - as it was no different to going back to school.
I'm sure my family is an extreme example, but there's definitely a culture in the west, particularly among elites, where getting shot of your kids as soon as possible is highly desirable.
I have a perfectly ok relationship with each of them - see each once every few years, we're friendly and civil - but I've never really viewed them as parents - those would have been my aupairs and then the regimented institution of public school.
> You presume being loved and cherished involves having to live together.
I presume no such thing. Although any feelings a six year old has of feeling being loved and cherished are greatly enhanced by living together with their parent(s). That being said, what I do consider abandonment is being raised by au pairs and shipped off to boarding school by age six.
> I moved out quite early on myself, and my relationship with my parents is quite fine. (From the US for context)
Moving out of your own free will is quite different from being put into boarding school at age six.
Both of us were accidents - hence the seven year gap - kids had never really been part of the plan. To say we were unloved would be wrong - but we were inconvenient, and never allowed to forget it.
I'm glad to say that my dad seems to be getting it right the second time around, with wife 2.0, which underscores my upbringing being culturally rather than idiopathically driven - in the culture in which they lived, kids were there to convey status, and not much else.
Honestly, my family dynamic is all sorts of weird to most, but not unfamiliar to many who shared a parallel experience with me.
I wish people didn't feel obligated to have children if they know they don't want children or know they aren't up to doing it properly. It's not like accidents can't be "fixed".
This isn't directly aimed at you, I'm sure you are a wonderful person and are happy about this accident. I just feel children should not be had as status symbols or out of obligation.
> To say we were unloved would be wrong - but we were inconvenient, and never allowed to forget it.
Loved, but inconvenient. I'm having a hard time wrapping my mind around that one :) I guess that's cognitive dissonance.
> Also, in a way it is nice. You are NEVER alone. You ALWAYS have people waiting for you when you come back from work.
Glad it works for you, but that has got to be the third circle of my personal hell.
> 'Being alone' is seldom a reason for a depressed Indian - the family is always there.
That's nice. Some European countries are exactly the opposite. It's my hypothesis that this is the cause for many suicides, despite otherwise stellar living standards.
> Glad it works for you, but that has got to be the third circle of my personal hell.
Here, here. Not only do I not live with parents, friends or anyone else. The slowly but steadily losing side of a current raging personal debate in my head is that one day I should share my life with a significant other and perhaps have a family of my own. That idea is on the ropes but I'm not quite ready to close that door completely, but I'm real close to calling the fight and declaring a winner.
Further, I have been going longer between replies to messages from friends. If they need to find me, they will know where to go. We can only maintain X number of relationships. I would rather that list include people in my pro network and an inner circle of friends and family.
If you can handle being alone. I feel that's a superpower. Though there are many benefits to for sharing your life with an SO. I suppose it's a trade-off.
I can completely relate. Deciding to share a flat with my then girlfriend, now wife (and literally the first non-family member I shared a living space with outside of boarding school), was a much much bigger and more difficult decision for me than the decision to have kids or get married. And even 10+ years later I'd be lying if said that I don't sometime still miss living alone.
This seems like a huge cultural difference from the west. I personally can't imagine having lived with my parents into my 20s. The people I know who did are mostly far more dependent. I think this has a lot to do with our focus on individuality. I don't think I would have developed into the person I am today without having dealt with the hardships of making my own way in life as an independent person. I can absolutely see the financial and emotional benefits, but I would feel constantly stifled and unable to be my own person with that level of family intrusion in my life.
I think it does vary here in the US. I'm 30, also a developer, and my girlfriend and I have been living with my father for two years now.
I make about the same income he does... but in living together we can do so much better. There's always someone excited to make dinner every night.
We get to spend a lot of time together, and even though it's hard sometimes, and requires more emotional work, I think we've all grown from it. We buy a lot of groceries, and keep things clean. This summer I rebuilt some of our pantry space. My dad is really awesome though... He's super supportive, we smoke weed together, play LOL, work on projects around the house, go hunting, butcher our own animals, raise chickens.
My girlfriend and I have our own room, and we've been using the money saved to build a tiny house on a carhauler trailer. So we may not live with him forever, but I think all of our lives have been enriched a lot being together.
It's hard sometimes too, and some days I feel really angry with him. But some days I feel angry with my girlfriend too =) but also i still love them, and working through those things has only made me stronger
Heh.. I moved out when I was 16 (went to a high school and then followed by University) and have now lived alone for 22 years.
I can't even entertain the idea of not having my own privacy and my own place to do exactly what I want, when I want how I want.
I'm already getting anxious about the holidays and spending a few days with family. It's so exhausting, all that useless meaningless chatter etc. Makes one so weary.
Independence is prized in the West, America especially. Do you think John Wayne lived with his parents? Joking aside, even (especially?) very wealthy American families expect their children will basically do everything for themselves beyond a certain point, which is pretty arbitrary. Theres pressure from parents to be independent and achieve. It reflects poorly on you and them for you to live at home. I don't see this with some of my friends from other cultures who are unashamed to accept significant financial help from their parents and whose parents are unashamed to provide it.
Indian here, I have experienced life in India and a Western country. I have noticed Western young adults are more confident and assertive compared to Indian young adults and I think the reason is because Western kids have to be independent after 18 while Indian parents still play a significant role even after their kids have become adults.
Not necessarily. Especially in the big cities and among the wealthier or more educated (i.e. Indians you're likely to encounter on HN). I don't have statistics on hand but "love" marriages constitute a non-trivial percentage of marriages in those areas and social circles.
Even in arranged marriages in the big cities both parties usually have some veto power; parents don't (usually) just unilaterally say "You're marrying him/her and that's that" because that's not a happy start to any marriage. The guy or girl is shown pictures and basic info (height, education, job etc.) about potential candidates from a shortlist (which parents get from a marriage bureau) and they pick out a few they might be interested in. It's pretty much a stale joke by now that any unmarried Indian engineer working abroad is going to be bombarded with pictures of girls by his parents when he visits India.
The guy or girl might meet a few different potential partners before making a decision. It often runs like parental-supervised dating (think of the scene in The Godfather, with the grandmothers following a few paces behind Michael Corleone and the Sicilian woman he's courting). The couple can get to know each other reasonably well before the wedding if the engagement is a few months long.
In the rural areas (i.e. most of the country) traditional arranged marriages probably still dominate though. Even there, the winds of change are a-blowin'.
However, compared to the west, we have little to no privacy. We are raised to not expect much privacy in the first place so we don't really miss it. Kids do NOT get a room of their own - never ever - they bunk with siblings. I was around 15 when I got a room of my 'own'. There's no pressure to move out once you grow up - parents would do their best to KEEP you home in fact. I would not have had to 'move out' if my college was not 200 km away. There's one big trade off with the whole set up though - no sex till you get married ;)